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Re: ext filesystem

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On 05/06/2014 04:27 PM, David Brown wrote:
> On 06/05/14 12:02, crankypuss wrote:
>> On 05/05/2014 05:12 PM, David Brown wrote:
>>> On 03/05/14 00:03, Bill Cunningham wrote:
>>>> "David Brown" <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote in message
>>>> news:ljt4sv$5qq$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>
>>>>> That package is for people writing low-level routines for repairing or
>>>>> checking ext file systems.  You are not doing anything like that, so
>>>>> the
>>>>> package is useless to you.  Don't bother looking at it.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you can say what you are trying to do, people can give you more
>>>>> help.
>>>>
>>>>      Considering studying for an /interest/ in utilies for checking or
>>>> changing things like inodes and so on. As a learning experience in
>>>> dealing
>>>> with filesystems.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You won't learn anything - if you ever get anything running that
>>> actually does anything to your inodes (assuming you know what they are),
>>> you will screw up your filesystem.
>>>
>>> This sort of stuff is /advanced/ programming.  It makes sense for people
>>> who have worked for years at kernel and OS programming - not for people
>>> who have spent 20 years trying to learn C and still haven't figured out
>>> what a pointer is.
>>>
>>> I am a great fan of learning, and encouraging people to learn and take
>>> up hobbies.  But there comes a point when you have to face reality and
>>> accept that you are not cut out for C programming.  Find yourself a
>>> hobby that matches your abilities, and you will be much happier.
>>
>> That seems like a pretty harsh indictment, David; we don't know the guy,
>> but you're assuming he's an idiot ("spent 20 years trying to learn C"
>> etc) and you seem to be pretty condescending about it.
>
> I don't know the guy personally, but I know the Usenet persona that is
> Bill Cunningham.  Take my word for it, or google him.  He is either
> deliberately trolling (in which case he deserves to be insulted or
> ignored), or he suffers from some sort of mental or psychological
> problems (in which case he should be encouraged to find a hobby that is
> more suited to his abilities).  I don't know which is the case here, and
> I therefore try to avoid insulting him - but I know it is pointless
> trying to help him with his C questions, and even more pointless helping
> him get himself into trouble with more advanced topics.

I don't know him from Adam, apparently you do; that your post was based 
on personal knowledge not indicated in the post may mean that I was in 
error and owe you an apology for thinking you were beating up on naive 
strangers.  If so, please consider it rendered.

>> Modifying inodes is not magic after all, every time somebody does a
>> 'chmod' he's modified an inode even if he's used a high-level interface
>> to do it.
>
> That is like saying planes are not complicated to build - after all, you
> use one every time you fly somewhere.

If you take it that way, then there you are, comparing apples and 
oranges; if you take it literally, which is how I tend to write, then 
you might take it differently than you have.

>>  I'm not familiar with the referenced "e2fsprogs-devel"
>> package, but it's either a set of commands or a set of subroutines; if
>> it was a set of subroutines he could read the code and figure it out. If
>> it's a set of commands, maybe what he needs is to find the source code
>> and read that, sometimes that's the only documentation around.
>>
>> Bill, when you say "utilies for checking or changing things like inodes
>> and so on" it sounds like what you're really after is a file-manager
>> that will give you a little more information/control than usually comes
>> out of the box.  If that's what you're looking for, there are a bunch of
>> alternatives available, you might find something already written that
>> will do more of what you want.
>>
>> Personally I'd advise against setting out to write your own file
>> manager, not because filesystems are magic, but because file-managers
>> need a user-interface and the available fullscreen stuff seems pretty
>> lame imo.
>
> File managers are at a completely different level from e2fsprogs-devel
> libraries.  Lots of people can (and do) write file managers of various
> sorts - they have nothing to do with the low-level extX data structures
> for which you need the e2fsprogs-devel libraries.

I don't know why one would *need* those libraries; I would hazard a 
guess that if I wanted to twiddle things at a low level I would not need 
those libraries, the struct's alone would suffice, presuming adequate 
documentation (which admittedly sometimes exists only as "usage 
examples" in libraries and suchlike).  But maybe by "need" you mean 
"save work by using" rather than "be unable to succeed without", which 
are really two quite different meanings; English sucks that way, it's a 
wonder any of us can ever communicate at all using the English language.

> And Bill has not the faintest idea about what he wants to do here - he
> is merely picking a random library and thinking it would be cool to
> understand it.  But since he does not understand C, nor does he
> understand filesystems or the extX filesystems in particular, any time
> spent with these libraries would be wasted for him.  I am merely trying
> to encourage him to spend his time and effort on something he will be
> more successful at.

Well, good on you then, if your understanding of him is correct then 
he's likely to benefit from your advice.

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ext filesystem "Bill Cunningham" <nosapm@nspam.invalid> - 2014-04-30 19:04 -0400
  Re: ext filesystem Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2014-05-01 05:59 +0000
    Re: ext filesystem "Bill Cunningham" <nosapm@nspam.invalid> - 2014-05-02 18:01 -0400
  Re: ext filesystem David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-05-01 11:41 +0200
    Re: ext filesystem "Bill Cunningham" <nosapm@nspam.invalid> - 2014-05-02 18:03 -0400
      Re: ext filesystem David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-05-06 01:12 +0200
        Re: ext filesystem crankypuss <crankypuss@nomail.invalid> - 2014-05-06 04:02 -0600
          Re: ext filesystem Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2014-05-06 09:00 -0600
            Re: ext filesystem crankypuss <crankypuss@nomail.invalid> - 2014-05-07 00:42 -0600
          Re: ext filesystem David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-05-07 00:27 +0200
            Re: ext filesystem crankypuss <crankypuss@nomail.invalid> - 2014-05-07 00:58 -0600
          Re: ext filesystem "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2014-05-13 00:44 -0400

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