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Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses

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"Max" <noname@noreply.com> writes:

A leading remark: I'm going to reply to this because I feel inclined
to make an attempt to set this straight, however, this really doesn't
belong here and I (and presumably, also some numbers of other people)
would subscribe to advocacy groups were I interested in advocacy.

> Rainer Weikusat wrote:
>> There was a single postig by Jan Pantelje about the merits or lack
>> thereof of DOS and Windows. And this caused this 'Max' guy to go onto
>> a name calling spree centered around "as everyone knows, all Linux
>> user are ...". And these kind of sweeping statements based on
>> ignorance are 'bigotry' in my book, cf
>> 
>> http://oald8.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/dictionary/bigotry
>> 
>> especially considering that the person who posted them doesn't even
>> understand why his 'as we all know all XXX are YYY'-statements might
>> offend people. 
>
> Sorry, maybe my english is not perfect but I'm quite sure, in my
> consideration of the "meaning of the words", that the expression
> "merits or lack" is not the right expression for describe the following
> affirmations:
>
> "MS DOS is a memory limited piece of shit, and long dead.
> MS windows is an ever repeating attempt to write new ever worse
> versions of an OS to extract money from its victims.
> You should REALLY not support either of that anti human crap.
> Microsoft is pretty much dead anyways, I guess even to the totally
> ignorant users selling feature limited crap over and over again must
> have been noticed."
>
> As you can note, inside this "merits or lack" affirmation there is a
> "indirect" offense to Windows users classified as ignorant and, in my
> interpretation, also a bit stupid since continue to pay for have a
> "ever worse versions" of Windows OS.

A real lot of 'soft' things which are sold to people (insurance
policies would be a great example) only make sense when someone buys
into the arguments brought forth by the guy who wanted to sell
something and since that someone wants to sell, these arguments should
usually be taken with a grain of salt. Yet, people buy this stuff and
others specialize in representing them when they want their money back
(or would like their money back) because they realized that they were
actually defrauded OR because another fast-talking guy who wanted to
sell a different service "made" them realize that.

I don't use Windows voluntarily and certainly wouldn't want to spend
any money on it because - in my opinion - this is not a 'value for
money' proposition and I'm also convinced that most people who do
either had no other choice, at least no workable other choice, or fell
for an arguably elaborate marketing scam (they way to sell a useless
insurance is to bombard the 'victim' with rational sounding arguments
nobody who hasn't specifically prepared and trained for such a
situation can refute, especially since some of them are going to be
outright nonsense whose refutation would be very time-consuming, and
even somebody who could refute each argument could never do so at a
speed with which more subtly fallacious and nonsensical propositions
could be brought forth).

If someone suggested you had been spending your money unwisely to your
own detriment, either, his arguments hold water, then you would be
well advised to learn from them or they don't, at least not in your
opinion, and in this case, that someone is simply wrong/ favouring
other tradeoffs than the ones you considered desirable. In any case,
feeling 'insulted' because someone has a very different opinion on
some issue is - well - stupid. Some sensible reactions to that are

	- ignore it
        - refute it
        - state something like "without desiring to go into much
          detail, this is an opinion I don't agree with"

A bad reaction is starting with something like this:

,----
| "Ignorant users" as you call normal people are the same people who only
| need to use a computer without face problem like kernel configuration,
| recomiling libraries, fight with all the problem Linux give with driver
| of each device you try to connect and so on.
`----

	This is a run-of-the-mill set of seriously dated urban legends
	and you can rest assured that most present day Linux-users
	don't even really know what a kernel is, let alone how to
	'configure' one. At home, I have one 'device', that's a
	Brother DCP 7010 laser and the 'problem with the driver' I has
	was that I had to go to the site of the manufacturer and
	download it. In many cases, especially when using the more
	popular 'easy to use' distributions, the situation is such
	that you connect the device and it works out of the box, ie,
	without installing anything. Other cases exist as well but the
	situation is really not much different than it is for any
	other OS: Some hardware is well-supported, some can be made to
	work with difficulties, some can't be used at all. Depending
	on what someone advocacy's person agenda happens to be, he
	will focus on a suitable subset and ignore the others (and
	maybe, he would also like to sell an insurance policy :->)

and continue like this:

,----
| I know very well people like you, sice I have some friend who think
| exactly the same.
`----

or this (I've changed he order)

,----
| If you are one of the "classic" Linux user that think Linux is the only
| one OS star in the world and all other OS are shit is your problem but
| the reality is not as you think.
`----

This reads as 'I know the likes of you. Typical Linux users -- to
deluded to see reality', IOW, crackpots, fruitcakes, $younameit. But
other people are really other people. They are not identical to some
people you believe to know, not identical to each other and -
generally - not significantly less ore more intelligent than you
are. Insofar they do things you really don't understand or you do
things they really don't understand, this lack of understanding will
usually be based on a lack of knowledge.

NB: This was a long text and I didn't really have the time to write
it.

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Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses "Max" <noname@noreply.com> - 2012-11-19 08:15 +0000
  Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2012-11-19 12:42 +0200
    Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses "Max" <noname@noreply.com> - 2012-11-19 16:04 +0000
      Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-11-19 16:13 +0000
        Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses Chris Cox <chrisncoxn@endlessnow.com> - 2012-11-19 15:41 -0600
          Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-11-19 22:43 +0000
            Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses "Max" <noname@noreply.com> - 2012-11-20 09:28 +0000
              Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses Chris Cox <chrisncoxn@endlessnow.com> - 2012-11-20 09:14 -0600
                Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses Brian Bebeau <bbebeau@computer.org> - 2012-11-21 15:56 -0500
      Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2012-11-19 09:55 -0700
        Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses "Max" <noname@noreply.com> - 2012-11-20 09:31 +0000
          Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2012-11-20 15:17 +0200
      Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2012-11-19 20:24 +0200
        Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses "Max" <noname@noreply.com> - 2012-11-20 09:21 +0000
          Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses Chris Cox <chrisncoxn@endlessnow.com> - 2012-11-20 09:35 -0600
            Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses "Max" <noname@noreply.com> - 2012-11-20 15:52 +0000
          Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2012-11-20 11:35 -0700
            Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses "Max" <noname@noreply.com> - 2012-11-21 09:19 +0000
              Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2012-11-21 09:34 +0000
                Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses "Max" <noname@noreply.com> - 2012-11-21 10:59 +0000
                Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2012-11-21 11:54 +0000
                Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com> - 2012-11-21 16:43 +0000
                Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses "Max" <noname@noreply.com> - 2012-11-22 08:30 +0000
                Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com> - 2012-11-22 13:14 +0000
                Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses "Max" <noname@noreply.com> - 2012-11-22 14:08 +0000
                Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2012-11-22 10:06 -0600
                Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com> - 2012-11-22 16:31 +0000
                Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses "Max" <noname@noreply.com> - 2012-11-23 09:11 +0000
                Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2012-11-23 09:36 +0000
                Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses "Max" <noname@noreply.com> - 2012-11-23 16:27 +0000
                Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2012-11-23 20:13 +0000
                Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com> - 2012-11-23 14:54 +0000
                Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2012-11-22 08:03 -0600
                Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses morey4857@gmail.com - 2016-08-18 22:48 -0700
              Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses GangGreene <GangGreene@example.com> - 2012-11-21 07:48 -0500
              Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2012-11-21 08:24 -0600
                Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses "Max" <noname@noreply.com> - 2012-11-21 14:45 +0000
                Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2012-11-21 11:11 -0600
              Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2012-11-21 10:20 -0700
              Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-11-21 17:23 +0000
  Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-11-19 15:38 +0000
    Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses Joe Beanfish <joebeanfish@nospam.duh> - 2012-11-20 14:05 +0000
  Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2012-11-21 11:30 +0000
  Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses Ron House <rhouse@smartchat.net.au> - 2013-07-11 13:56 +1000
    Re: Set/get console cursor position without use ncurses Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com> - 2013-07-11 11:08 +0100

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