Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today...

From	Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org>
Newsgroups	comp.misc, alt.fan.usenet
Subject	Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today...
Date	2024-08-14 13:33 -0300
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<87ttfn2hf8.fsf@tudado.org> (permalink)
References	<v900h1$2eak$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> <wwvy156tb0a.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk> <87cymb7uqn.fsf@tudado.org> <v9h97d$a1de$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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Rich <rich@example.invalid> writes:

> In comp.misc Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> wrote:
>> Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:
>> 
>>>> Just a thought experiment:
>>>> if you could/had to make something like a NNTP 2.0 (with no need for  
>>>> backwards compatibility) and server and client software for it today, what 
>>>> would it be like?
>>>> In terms of specifications, technologies used, user interface, etc.
>> 
>> [...]
>> 
>>>   * All messages signed by author and originating server (supporting
>>>     reputation management)
>> 
>> Can you elaborate on this?  You'd like to bind each message to the
>> author-public-key and his NNTP server?  So that everyone who he is and
>> which server he used?  (Can you give an example of how you'd do that?)
>
> One possibility (which would inherit most if not all of the pgp/gpg 
> 'key' distribution problem):
>
> 1) each user generates a gpg key pair they use for 'usenet2' posts.
>
> 2) user uploads public key to some "central source" for others to 
>    retreive from [1] for 'validation' purposes.
>
> 3) user installs private half of key in their client software
>
> 4) for each post, user's client software 'signs' the message using the 
> private key, inserting the 'signature' into appropriate message 
> 'headers' (note, there's a lot left unstated here, I'm spitballing, not 
> protocol designing).
>
> 5) each server also performs step 1 but there may not need to be a step 
> 2 for a server /if/ the collective set of servers are the 'central' 
> storage of keys and the protocol has a way to supply a public key for 
> 'server/user X' on demand.
>
> 6) for each post, from any user of serverX, serverX further signs the 
> message using the serverX private key and inserts the appropriate 
> message headers containing the "server signature" (note that here one 
> most likely wants this server sig.  to cover [and thus authenticate] 
> the user signature headers of the message).
>
> The result, is that a recipient, should they choose to do so, can 
> verify that any given message was signed by serverX using the serverX 
> public key, and can further verify that the messge was signed by userX 
> of serverX via the userX of serverX public key.
>
>
> [1] Do note that the 'central source' could be the collective set of 
> 'usenet2' servers, provided there was a way to request the 'key' of 
> user 'X' from server 'Y'.  In which case #2 is "uploads public key to 
> their 'usenet2' server.

Thanks.

I have not thought even five minutes on this, but it seems complicated.
A large NNTP server should be time-resilient, so, for example, to
eternally be able to verify signatures, we need to keep all used public
keys always available.  Archiving, as we know, is not an easy task.

When I think of a user's network, I think of a kind of mailing lists via
NNTP, but not like Gmane.  I subscribe myself to a group in a server by
getting an authorization from the server (for that group specifically).
I register that authorization in my client.  Now I can post to that
group.  Without an authorization, I'd only be able to read it.  Other
servers can easily host that group for reading.  Servers connected to
these other servers could not post to that group---only read it.  If a
client is external (that is, connected to these other servers) would
ever like to post, the author would write his post and the client would
directly connect to the group's original server, authenticate itself,
and then post.

In other words, let's not share responsibility.  Each server controls
its groups---and lets others easily read it, archive it, disseminate
it.  This way experts can have their own turf, let the world see their
discussion without disturbing them.

How is membership controlled in the Linux kernel mailing list (for
example)?  I don't know.  I'd think someone must approve new members.
I'd like to keep an eye on those discussions via NNTP, but it seems I
cannot easily do that.  Surely someone is archiving that in an NNTP
server somewhere.  I'm on Eternal September.  It should be an easy
matter for me; if it is not, then I think that's an opportunity for new
work.

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If you were to design a netnews protocol today... George Musk <grgmusk@skiff.com> - 2024-08-07 14:32 +0000
  Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Michael Bäuerle <michael.baeuerle@stz-e.de> - 2024-08-07 18:03 +0200
    Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2024-08-28 16:41 +0300
      Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Michael Bäuerle <michael.baeuerle@stz-e.de> - 2024-08-28 17:04 +0200
  Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <noreply@mixmin.net> - 2024-08-07 17:23 +0100
  Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-08-08 08:49 +1000
  Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-08 01:29 +0000
    Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2024-08-07 21:52 -0500
      Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-08 07:32 +0000
        Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <noreply@mixmin.net> - 2024-08-08 13:41 +0100
          Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-08 23:54 +0000
        Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2024-08-14 22:05 -0500
          Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-15 07:20 +0000
            Usenet as social media [was:Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today...] Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2024-08-15 13:37 +0300
              Re: Usenet as social media [was:Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today...] "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-08-15 16:30 +0100
                Re: Usenet as social media [was:Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today...] Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2024-08-15 18:48 +0300
                Re: Usenet as social media [was:Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today...] D <remailer@domain.invalid> - 2024-08-15 13:15 -0400
                Re: Usenet as social media [was:Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today...] D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-15 23:30 +0200
                Re: Usenet as social media [was:Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today...] snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2024-08-15 23:03 +0100
                Re: Usenet as social media [was:Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today...] D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-16 09:41 +0200
                Re: Usenet as social media [was:Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today...] yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-08-15 23:35 +0042
                Re: Usenet as social media [was:Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today...] D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-16 09:44 +0200
                Re: Usenet as social media [was:Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today...] Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> - 2024-08-27 19:51 -0300
                Re: Usenet as social media [was:Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today...] D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-28 10:45 +0200
                Re: Usenet as social media [was:Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today...] Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> - 2024-08-27 19:49 -0300
                Re: Usenet as social media [was:Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today...] kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2024-09-04 11:40 +0000
          Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... steveo@panix.com (Steven M. O'Neill) - 2024-08-15 14:11 +0000
            Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-16 02:07 +0000
              Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-08-17 11:18 -0700
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-17 21:45 +0200
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-08-17 13:04 -0700
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-08-17 20:31 +0000
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-08-17 15:41 -0700
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-08-17 15:35 -0700
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-18 11:04 +0200
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-08-18 08:25 -0700
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-08-21 10:50 +0100
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-21 16:08 +0200
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-08-18 17:11 +0000
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-08-18 10:37 -0700
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-19 00:02 +0200
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2024-08-20 22:07 +0000
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-08-21 10:52 +0100
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-18 10:18 +0100
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-19 00:00 +0200
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> - 2024-08-27 19:53 -0300
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-08-27 19:51 -0700
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> - 2024-08-28 21:34 -0300
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-08-29 01:42 +0042
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-29 10:21 +0200
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-08-29 13:57 +0000
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-08-29 16:56 +0042
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-08-29 17:07 +0000
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2024-08-30 11:58 +0300
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-30 22:53 +0200
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> - 2024-08-30 18:51 -0300
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-08-30 22:50 +0042
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-29 10:18 +0200
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-08-29 09:22 +0042
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-05 01:28 +0000
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-09-05 15:10 +0000
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> - 2024-08-30 18:53 -0300
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> - 2024-09-01 22:47 -0300
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-09-02 06:56 +0042
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2024-08-29 13:30 +0300
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> - 2024-08-30 18:55 -0300
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2024-08-28 00:53 +0100
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-08-28 01:59 +0042
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2024-08-28 03:07 +0100
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-08-28 03:08 +0042
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-08-28 17:50 +0000
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2024-08-28 19:41 +0300
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2024-08-28 18:52 +0100
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-08-28 19:34 +0100
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2024-08-28 19:58 +0100
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-08-28 21:16 +0100
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2024-08-28 17:55 -0300
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2024-08-28 22:04 +0100
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-08-28 22:40 +0000
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2024-08-29 13:12 +0300
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2024-08-31 23:47 +0000
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-05 01:34 +0000
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-28 10:46 +0200
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-08-28 15:09 +0042
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2024-08-28 18:11 +0000
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2024-08-28 19:58 +0100
      Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2024-08-08 09:39 +0000
        Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <noreply@mixmin.net> - 2024-08-08 14:16 +0100
    Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <noreply@mixmin.net> - 2024-08-08 04:31 +0100
  Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-09 08:23 +0100
    Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-09 17:34 +0100
      Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-09 19:13 +0100
        Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-10 00:25 +0000
          Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-10 09:14 +0100
            Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-10 08:17 +0000
            Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-08-10 15:05 +0000
              Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-08-10 16:51 +0000
              Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-10 23:41 +0200
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... bks@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman) - 2024-08-10 22:10 +0000
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... William Stickers <bill.stickers@innocent.com> - 2024-08-12 10:23 +0100
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2024-08-12 11:21 +0100
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... William Stickers <bill.stickers@innocent.com> - 2024-08-12 21:41 +0100
    Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-09 22:25 +0200
    Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-09 22:27 +0200
    Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-08-09 21:38 +0042
    Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> - 2024-08-13 22:34 -0300
      Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-08-14 03:44 +0000
        Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> - 2024-08-14 13:33 -0300
          Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-08-15 08:16 +1000
            Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2024-08-15 19:50 +0300
              Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-08-16 08:30 +1000
      Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-14 18:36 +0100
  Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... "Andy K." <andy.k466@gmail.com> - 2024-08-17 16:49 +0200
    Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-17 21:43 +0200
      Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... "Andy K." <andy.k466@gmail.com> - 2024-08-19 13:07 +0200
        Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-19 19:36 +0200
          Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-08-19 18:35 +0042
            Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-19 22:40 +0200
              Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-08-19 22:20 +0042
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-20 10:01 +0200
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-08-20 17:07 +0042
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-20 20:00 +0200
              Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2024-08-20 22:10 +0000
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-21 07:28 +0000

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