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what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results

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  what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Everything You Need To Know <eyn2k@outlook.com> - 2014-08-20 08:36 -0700
    Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2014-08-20 18:05 +0200
      Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-21 09:08 +1000
        Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Everything You Need To Know <eyn2k@outlook.com> - 2014-08-20 18:22 -0700
          Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-21 11:41 +1000
          Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-08-21 11:35 +1000
            Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Everything You Need To Know <eyn2k@outlook.com> - 2014-08-20 19:07 -0700
              Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-08-21 14:39 +1000
                Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-08-20 21:49 -0700
                  Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Everything You Need To Know <eyn2k@outlook.com> - 2014-08-20 22:08 -0700
                    Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-08-21 15:26 +1000
                      Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Everything You Need To Know <eyn2k@outlook.com> - 2014-08-20 22:38 -0700
                        Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-21 15:49 +1000
                          Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Everything You Need To Know <eyn2k@outlook.com> - 2014-08-20 23:09 -0700
                            Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-21 16:50 +1000
                              Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Everything You Need To Know <eyn2k@outlook.com> - 2014-08-20 23:52 -0700
                                Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-08-21 09:19 +0100
                            Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-08-21 09:15 +0100
                        Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-08-21 15:54 +1000
                      Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-22 02:50 +1000
                        Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-08-21 16:15 -0400
                          Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-08-21 15:09 -0700
                        Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-08-22 07:15 +1000
                          Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Everything You Need To Know <eyn2k@outlook.com> - 2014-08-21 16:10 -0700
                            Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2014-08-21 19:28 -0400
                              Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Everything You Need To Know <eyn2k@outlook.com> - 2014-08-24 17:04 -0700
                                Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-25 10:08 +1000
                            Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-08-22 02:27 +0100
                        Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-08-21 22:58 +0100
                    Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-08-20 22:31 -0700
              Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-08-21 09:09 +0100
          Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-21 02:36 +0000
            Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-08-20 19:46 -0700
            Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Everything You Need To Know <eyn2k@outlook.com> - 2014-08-20 20:48 -0700
              Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-08-20 23:03 -0600
                Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Everything You Need To Know <eyn2k@outlook.com> - 2014-08-20 23:18 -0700
                  Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-08-21 16:30 +1000
          Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2014-08-21 10:23 +0200
    Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-08-21 03:25 -0400
      Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Everything You Need To Know <eyn2k@outlook.com> - 2014-08-21 00:40 -0700
        Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-08-21 09:24 +0100
    Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Everything You Need To Know <eyn2k@outlook.com> - 2014-08-21 06:25 -0700
      Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results luofeiyu <elearn2014@gmail.com> - 2014-08-21 21:37 +0800
        Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-08-21 19:50 +0000
        Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-08-21 15:21 -0700
      Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-08-21 16:10 -0400
    Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Dan Stromberg <drsalists@gmail.com> - 2014-08-21 15:15 -0700

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#76751

On 8/21/2014 12:50 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Ben Finney wrote:
>
>> Everything You Need To Know <eyn2k@outlook.com> writes:
>>
>>> I guess I have to agree and was mistaken, though vitriol I found
>>> unnecessary and unproductive!
>>
>> You've behaved obnoxiously, as has been pointed out.
>
> People can point out anything they like, it does not mean it is necessarily
> so. Adam ("Everything You Need To Know") has perhaps posted unwisely and
> clumsily, but obnoxiously?
>
>      Obnoxious (noun):
>      very offensive; hateful; odious; reprehensible.
>
> What did Adam do that was *obnoxious*? Here are some of the accusations
> thrown at him:
>
> - his "fancy" video is too simple for the "skilled Python programmers" at
> this forum and is "barely original";
>
> - he posted using a "self-aggrandising name" instead of his "real name";
>
> - he posted a link to another website (oh the horror!!!);
>
> - his post is "spam" (commercial, unsolicited advertising);
>
> - he posted as a member of a group instead of an individual.
>
> And that's pretty much it.
>
> I reject any suggestion that Adam's post is "obnoxious" or that it is spam.
> It is clearly on-topic. Frankly, I am ashamed at the closed-minded
> hostility demonstrated here in this thread. Ben, I believe that your
> behaviour goes against the spirit of the Python Community Code of Conduct,
> if not the actual letter of CoC. Can you honestly say that you have been
> Open, Considerate, and Respectful in telling Adam that his post
> was "obnoxious" and that his post is "not appropriate" just because it is
> hosted on YouTube?
>
> This is supposed to be a welcoming place. Does anyone think we as a
> community have been welcoming to Adam?
>
> - We jumped down his throat for a couple of minor social faux pas, like
> failing to sign his post with a name.
>
> - We displayed the most odious double-standards: we attacked Adam for
> posting on behalf of a group, but when members of the PSF or the Python
> core developers make an announcement or post speaking for those groups, we
> accept their right to do so without question.
>
> - We allow long-time community members to link to external forums, we accept
> them including links to their own blogs and websites, but accused Adam of
> being a spammer because he linked to an on-topic video hosted on YouTube.
>
> - We've made the most egregious and unjustified generalisations, speaking
> for others without their consent, by insisting that "most" of us here are
> too experienced to care for Adam's post. I'm an experienced Python
> programmer, I've been contributing here and on other forums for over a
> decade, and I learned something new from Adam's video.
>
> Earlier, I posted on how Adam could have, *should* have, engaged with us.
> But we should have engaged with him too:
>
> - we should have assumed good faith, instead of accusing him of being a
> spammer;
>
> - we should have been welcoming, instead of exclusionary and elitist;
>
> - we should have given him constructive criticism for his video, since it is
> on-topic, rather than being so carelessly dismissive;
>
> - or even just ignored it, if you don't like instructional videos;
>
> - we should be respectful of people's right to prefer video over text, as
> misguided as I personally believe it to be, some people like it;
>
> - and we should be forgiving of minor faux pas and gaffes, rather than going
> on the attack as we did.
>
> Adam, for myself, I am sorry that we allowed a few mild gaffes on your part
> lead to such a hostile reception for you, but please have a belated
> welcome.

Thank you for posting this Steven. As a list admin, I pretty much agree 
with everything you said.  Some people are caught in a negative feedback 
cycle and all should step out of it and stop.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy

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#76755

On Friday, August 22, 2014 1:45:23 AM UTC+5:30, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 8/21/2014 12:50 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > Ben Finney wrote:
> >> Everything You Need To Know writes:
> >>> I guess I have to agree and was mistaken, though vitriol I found
> >>> unnecessary and unproductive!
> >> You've behaved obnoxiously, as has been pointed out.
> > People can point out anything they like, it does not mean it is necessarily
> > so. Adam ("Everything You Need To Know") has perhaps posted unwisely and
> > clumsily, but obnoxiously?
> >      Obnoxious (noun):
> >      very offensive; hateful; odious; reprehensible.
> > What did Adam do that was *obnoxious*? Here are some of the accusations
> > thrown at him:
> > - his "fancy" video is too simple for the "skilled Python programmers" at
> > this forum and is "barely original";
> > - he posted using a "self-aggrandising name" instead of his "real name";
> > - he posted a link to another website (oh the horror!!!);
> > - his post is "spam" (commercial, unsolicited advertising);
> > - he posted as a member of a group instead of an individual.
> > And that's pretty much it.
> > I reject any suggestion that Adam's post is "obnoxious" or that it is spam.
> > It is clearly on-topic. Frankly, I am ashamed at the closed-minded
> > hostility demonstrated here in this thread. Ben, I believe that your
> > behaviour goes against the spirit of the Python Community Code of Conduct,
> > if not the actual letter of CoC. Can you honestly say that you have been
> > Open, Considerate, and Respectful in telling Adam that his post
> > was "obnoxious" and that his post is "not appropriate" just because it is
> > hosted on YouTube?
> > This is supposed to be a welcoming place. Does anyone think we as a
> > community have been welcoming to Adam?
> > - We jumped down his throat for a couple of minor social faux pas, like
> > failing to sign his post with a name.
> > - We displayed the most odious double-standards: we attacked Adam for
> > posting on behalf of a group, but when members of the PSF or the Python
> > core developers make an announcement or post speaking for those groups, we
> > accept their right to do so without question.
> > - We allow long-time community members to link to external forums, we accept
> > them including links to their own blogs and websites, but accused Adam of
> > being a spammer because he linked to an on-topic video hosted on YouTube.
> > - We've made the most egregious and unjustified generalisations, speaking
> > for others without their consent, by insisting that "most" of us here are
> > too experienced to care for Adam's post. I'm an experienced Python
> > programmer, I've been contributing here and on other forums for over a
> > decade, and I learned something new from Adam's video.
> > Earlier, I posted on how Adam could have, *should* have, engaged with us.
> > But we should have engaged with him too:
> > - we should have assumed good faith, instead of accusing him of being a
> > spammer;
> > - we should have been welcoming, instead of exclusionary and elitist;
> > - we should have given him constructive criticism for his video, since it is
> > on-topic, rather than being so carelessly dismissive;
> > - or even just ignored it, if you don't like instructional videos;
> > - we should be respectful of people's right to prefer video over text, as
> > misguided as I personally believe it to be, some people like it;
> > - and we should be forgiving of minor faux pas and gaffes, rather than going
> > on the attack as we did.
> > Adam, for myself, I am sorry that we allowed a few mild gaffes on your part
> > lead to such a hostile reception for you, but please have a belated
> > welcome.

> Thank you for posting this Steven. As a list admin, I pretty much agree 
> with everything you said.  Some people are caught in a negative feedback 
> cycle and all should step out of it and stop.

Thanks Steven, Terry for that.
I would like to add: Often behavior that is labeled obnoxious comes from
people who have no clue about it.

Google groups is a typical example because GG works (kinda) for people
who use GG. IOW GG hides its own problems; whereas it hits other
users.  [I had no idea that the long lines is an issue until rurpy
pointed it out] In this case the additional gaffe in the same direction
is that python-list is owned by Google(!!).

Adam: I do request you once again to read and
'action'¹ https://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython

--------------
¹ Am I the only one who finds nouns used as verbs obnoxious?<wink>

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#76753

Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> writes:

> Adam ("Everything You Need To Know") has perhaps posted unwisely and
> clumsily, but obnoxiously?
>
>     Obnoxious (noun): 
>     very offensive; hateful; odious; reprehensible.
>
> What did Adam do that was *obnoxious*? Here are some of the
> accusations thrown at him:
>
> - he posted using a "self-aggrandising name" instead of his "real
> name";

Using one's real name is helpful, but choosing not to is not obnoxious.

Using a name that is clearly not naming a person, and instead is a
marketing name for one's site elsewhere, is odious and reprehensible
because it approaches this community as no more than a market for
one-way messages.

> - his post is "spam" (commercial, unsolicited advertising);

Spam does not entail commercial; religious screeds that have no
commercial nature can qualify, for example.

His posts, repeatedly giving a link to a video and contributing to no
on-topic discussion, are unsolicited bulk messages. That's spam.

> - he posted as a member of a group instead of an individual.

No, he posted *as the group*, and his explanations made it clear that he
did not intend to engage as an individual. That's obnoxious in a
community discussion forum.

> I reject any suggestion that Adam's post is "obnoxious" or that it is
> spam. It is clearly on-topic.

I'm one of many who disagree.

> Frankly, I am ashamed at the closed-minded hostility demonstrated here
> in this thread.

Engaging a person with specific details on how their behaviour is
objectionable, and specific requests on how to improve, demonstrates
hope and optimism that the person can contribute positively. I don't
accept the claim of closed-mindedness.

Hostility? Yes, I'm hostile to behaviour which has already descended to
disrespecting the purpose of this community forum. That doesn't extend
to hostility to a person, though I understand it can be difficult for
the person to see the difference at the time their behaviour is
criticised.

> Ben, I believe that your behaviour goes against the spirit of the
> Python Community Code of Conduct, if not the actual letter of CoC. Can
> you honestly say that you have been Open, Considerate, and Respectful
> in telling Adam that his post was "obnoxious" and that his post is
> "not appropriate" just because it is hosted on YouTube?

Yes, I have respectfully explained at length to Adam why I'm criticising
his behaviour.

I have not, AFAIK, given any cause to think I lack respect for Adam as a
person — indeed, one of my main criticisms is that Adam should engage
*as a person*.

I also respect Adam enough to recognise that he's likely to be able to
learn what was objectionable about his behaviour and improve it.

> This is supposed to be a welcoming place. Does anyone think we as a
> community have been welcoming to Adam?

When the initial engagement is a continuous repeating of the same
disrespectful behaviour, and it continues oblivious to requests to
correct the mistakes, I think the welcome has worn out. We are not
obligated to endure everything, and respect for all the *other* persons
here is also needed and entailed in the Code of Conduct.

-- 
 \        “[It's] best to confuse only one issue at a time.” —Brian W. |
  `\  Kernighan, Dennis M. Ritchie, _The C programming language_, 1988 |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney

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#76757

On Friday, 22 August 2014 06:45:07 UTC+9:30, Ben Finney  wrote:

> When the initial engagement is a continuous repeating of the same
> disrespectful behaviour, and it continues oblivious to requests to
> correct the mistakes, I think the welcome has worn out. We are not
> obligated to endure everything, and respect for all the *other* persons
> here is also needed and entailed in the Code of Conduct.
> 
Like your comment here, you simply have far too much time on your hand! Learn from your own words and stop saying the same thing over and over, it is like talking to a brick wall. I admitted my mistake, and am looking at this GG thing today, the link previous said I could clean my text, this doesn't seem to work. 
I am only using this account while still on this topic so GG is gone.

>"Hostility? Yes"

Get over yourself and grow up! this was my second post, you have not even given me a chance or time! watch that link and remember godlike programmers only cause problems! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csyL9EC0S0c 
keep programming fun!

and I'm sorry I couldn't help myself here:

"You have three options. 

1) Carry on the way you are and get plonked. 
2) Change and be accepted."

you only let me choose between two! that was funny!

could go on but no point, just ask what your comments are going to achieve before the post

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#76760

On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 7:10 PM, Everything You Need To Know
<eyn2k@outlook.com> wrote:
> On Friday, 22 August 2014 06:45:07 UTC+9:30, Ben Finney  wrote:
>
>> When the initial engagement is a continuous repeating of the same
>> disrespectful behaviour, and it continues oblivious to requests to
>> correct the mistakes, I think the welcome has worn out. We are not
>> obligated to endure everything, and respect for all the *other* persons
>> here is also needed and entailed in the Code of Conduct.
>>
> Like your comment here, you simply have far too much time on your hand! Learn from your own words and stop saying the same thing over and over, it is like talking to a brick wall. I admitted my mistake, and am looking at this GG thing today, the link previous said I could clean my text, this doesn't seem to work.
> I am only using this account while still on this topic so GG is gone.
>
>>"Hostility? Yes"
>
> Get over yourself and grow up! this was my second post, you have not even given me a chance or time! watch that link and remember godlike programmers only cause problems! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csyL9EC0S0c
> keep programming fun!
>
> and I'm sorry I couldn't help myself here:
>
> "You have three options.
>
> 1) Carry on the way you are and get plonked.
> 2) Change and be accepted."
>
> you only let me choose between two! that was funny!
>
> could go on but no point, just ask what your comments are going to achieve before the post
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

eyntk:

I have a certain affection for your videos.  I'm not sure they are
useful to all, but maybe interesting to some.  Kudos to all who try to
spread their interest and knowledge.  But this is a tough and very
fair and generous crowd here I believe.  Its probably better to listen
and participate than to just announce. Or just announce and disappear!
 This place is more for interaction -- asking and responding, ... and
debating.  I don't know the rules for announcements.  At any rate, if
you feel you have something useful to offer, maybe you can figure out
how to do that without given the impression that you are 'carpet
bagging' (an american term).  Using a name (even a nickname) makes you
a person.  Using a company name is kind of off-putting.  If your group
is more than you, then by all means, have all of you participate.  No
problem citing the group you are working with.  Email addresses are
more or less free, right?




-- 
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com

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#76949

> eyntk: 
> 
> I have a certain affection for your videos.  I'm not sure they are
> useful to all, but maybe interesting to some.  Kudos to all who try to
> spread their interest and knowledge.  But this is a tough and very
> fair and generous crowd here I believe.  Its probably better to listen
> and participate than to just announce. Or just announce and disappear!
>  This place is more for interaction -- asking and responding, ... and
> debating.  I don't know the rules for announcements.  At any rate, if
> you feel you have something useful to offer, maybe you can figure out
> how to do that without given the impression that you are 'carpet
> bagging' (an american term).  Using a name (even a nickname) makes you
> a person.  Using a company name is kind of off-putting.  If your group
> is more than you, then by all means, have all of you participate.  No
> problem citing the group you are working with.  Email addresses are
> more or less free, right? 
> 
> Joel Goldstick
> http://joelgoldstick.com

This is my lat post to say that eyn2k is gone and you will see us as individuals not a groug or especially not on GG. Thank you everyone for your time, whether I have personally thought it positive or not we did learn alot and appreciate thought!

Though I personally (Adam), am moving to the NSW coast in 4 weeks, and it will take four weeks probably before we can return. 

Thank you everyone for your time,

Adam A

*** Please do not respond, I would like to see this thread dissapear and reintroduce myself in 4 weeks!

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#76953

On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 10:04 AM, Everything You Need To Know
<eyn2k@outlook.com> wrote:
> *** Please do not respond, I would like to see this thread dissapear and reintroduce myself in 4 weeks!

Just so you know, asking people to not respond almost never works. :)

On the flip side, asking for responses often doesn't work either...

ChrisA

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#76762

On 22/08/2014 00:28, Joel Goldstick wrote:
>
> I don't know the rules for announcements.
>

https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-announce-list also 
available through gmane.comp.python.announce

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence

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#76754

On 21/08/2014 22:15, Ben Finney wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> writes:
>

[War and Peace snipped]

Frankly I think this entire debate has rapidly descended to the level of 
farce.  Can we move on please?

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence

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#76701

On Thursday, August 21, 2014 10:38:04 AM UTC+5:30, Everything You Need To Know wrote:
| On Thursday, 21 August 2014 14:19:27 UTC+9:30, Rustom Mody  wrote:
| 
| | On Thursday, August 21, 2014 10:09:45 AM UTC+5:30, Ben Finney wrote:
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | > Everything You Need To Know writes:
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | > > It is not just one person here! To give my name when we are trying to
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | > > be a small group would not work.
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | > That's not how a community operates. Please post as an individual, with
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | > a person's name, to establish your reputation and continuity.
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | > Others can post as themselves. We don't need organisations posting as if
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | > they were a person with one mind.
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | Let me try to put it another way: We are a community of individuals
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | not of corporations, even 'informal' corporations.
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | Your entry here as an individual is welcome; as a corporation its
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | out of place
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | 
> |I guess I have to agree and was mistaken, though vitriol I found unnecessary and unproductive! Just thought it was in best interest if we posted as one rather than individuals, if we had each other agreeing with one another it by accident or other, it would add extra sway to an individual point of view as we are sharing it.

Ok here's a suggestion:
Post with your 'collective' login
Sign with your individual 'Real' name.¹

Also note you are not yet following the suggestions:
 https://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython 
TO show you how your post looks  to others here, Ive changed the '>' to '|'

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#76716

On 21/08/2014 03:07, Everything You Need To Know wrote:

You'd make more friends here if you weren't suffering from google groups 
disease, which seems to be spreading like wildfire at the moment.  To 
cure this terrible affliction please access this list via 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list or read and action 
this https://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython to prevent us 
seeing double line spacing and single line paragraphs, thanks.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence

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#76691

On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 18:22:01 -0700, Everything You Need To Know wrote:

> Thank you Steven, I thought most of the exercises I have posted were
> quiet original and still offer interesting results.
[...]


You will find less hostility if you attempt to engage with the community 
rather than just dump a link on us. Giving a "real" name or alias is a 
good start: calling you "Everything You Need To Know" is tacky. At the 
very least, you should sign your posts with the name or alias you wish to 
be known by.

Although some people may not like it, self-promotion is not prohibited 
here, provided it is relevant to Python, that your posts are not 
misleading or deceitful in any way, and you don't flood the channel with 
noise.

My recommendation is:

- For preference, you should be a regular poster in the community,
  answering questions (or even asking questions!) often enough 
  that people will recognise you.

- If you are not a regular, you should take the time to engage with
  the rest of the community. This is a community, not just a place to
  advertise, so the polite thing to do is at least to say hello. Who 
  are you, what is your background in Python, what do you have to
  offer us, why should we follow your link?

- A very common convention in Usenet and email circles is to label
  announcements like this with "[Announce]" at the start of the 
  subject line.


Something like this would probably be more acceptable:


    Subject: [Announce] Short Python video about the Mandelbrot set
    From: Everything You Need To Know <eyn2k@outlook.com>

    Hi, I'm Fred, the author of the "Everything You Need To Know" 
    channel on Youtube. I have a 3 minute video about Python 
    programming aimed at beginners:

    "What do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results"

    If you're interested in Python programming or the Mandelbrot set,
    you might like my videos.

    Thank you,

    Fred



You should also be prepared to stick around long enough to answer any 
questions (or criticism!).



Good luck,



-- 
Steven

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#76692

On Thursday, August 21, 2014 8:06:44 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 18:22:01 -0700, Everything You Need To Know wrote:

> > Thank you Steven, I thought most of the exercises I have posted were
> > quiet original and still offer interesting results.
> [...]

> You will find less hostility if you attempt to engage with the community 
> rather than just dump a link on us. Giving a "real" name or alias is a 
> good start: calling you "Everything You Need To Know" is tacky. At the 
> very least, you should sign your posts with the name or alias you wish to 
> be known by.

> Although some people may not like it, self-promotion is not prohibited 
> here, provided it is relevant to Python, that your posts are not 
> misleading or deceitful in any way, and you don't flood the channel with 
> noise.

> My recommendation is:

> - For preference, you should be a regular poster in the community,
>   answering questions (or even asking questions!) often enough 
>   that people will recognise you.

> - If you are not a regular, you should take the time to engage with
>   the rest of the community. This is a community, not just a place to
>   advertise, so the polite thing to do is at least to say hello. Who 
>   are you, what is your background in Python, what do you have to
>   offer us, why should we follow your link?

> - A very common convention in Usenet and email circles is to label
>   announcements like this with "[Announce]" at the start of the 
>   subject line.

> Something like this would probably be more acceptable:

>     Subject: [Announce] Short Python video about the Mandelbrot set

>     Hi, I'm Fred, the author of the "Everything You Need To Know" 
>     channel on Youtube. I have a 3 minute video about Python 
>     programming aimed at beginners:

>     "What do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results"

>     If you're interested in Python programming or the Mandelbrot set,
>     you might like my videos.

>     Thank you,

>     Fred


> You should also be prepared to stick around long enough to answer any 
> questions (or criticism!).

And to add to what Steven said:
Please read https://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython
Out here your stock goes down when you dont do the due diligence
described therein

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#76694

On Thursday, 21 August 2014 12:06:44 UTC+9:30, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 18:22:01 -0700, Everything You Need To Know wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > Thank you Steven, I thought most of the exercises I have posted were
> 
> > quiet original and still offer interesting results.
> 
> [...]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You will find less hostility if you attempt to engage with the community 
> 
> rather than just dump a link on us. Giving a "real" name or alias is a 
> 
> good start: calling you "Everything You Need To Know" is tacky. At the 
> 
> very least, you should sign your posts with the name or alias you wish to 
> 
> be known by.
> 
> 
> 
> Although some people may not like it, self-promotion is not prohibited 
> 
> here, provided it is relevant to Python, that your posts are not 
> 
> misleading or deceitful in any way, and you don't flood the channel with 
> 
> noise.
> 
> 


I will post updates on one Post so as not to create new posts and I am not making any money from this, also google owns youtube so I am only helping google the owner of this Forum?


> 
> My recommendation is:
> 
> 
> 
> - For preference, you should be a regular poster in the community,
> 
>   answering questions (or even asking questions!) often enough 
> 
>   that people will recognise you.
> 
> 

Thank you, I am considering how best to approach this with the other members. Originally we were going to share an account so we could engage from one account. Perhaps, as you have suggested, it would merely save some hostility if we did not share an account in the name of eyn2k and posted individually. Though I thought this might generate more hostility, having multiple members posting in one frame of mind I thought would generate a more biased view and slow creativity.

> 
> - If you are not a regular, you should take the time to engage with
> 
>   the rest of the community. This is a community, not just a place to
> 
>   advertise, so the polite thing to do is at least to say hello. Who 
> 
>   are you, what is your background in Python, what do you have to
> 
>   offer us, why should we follow your link?
> 
> 

Only now that we have a decent playlist (39 videos), did we think we are ready to start engaging, and wish to do so. I have personally set three days a week, a number of hours per day, simply to engage with an audience (though can check more regularly hopefully)

> 
> - A very common convention in Usenet and email circles is to label
> 
>   announcements like this with "[Announce]" at the start of the 
> 
>   subject line.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Something like this would probably be more acceptable:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     Subject: [Announce] Short Python video about the Mandelbrot set
> 
>     From: Everything You Need To Know <eyn2k@outlook.com>
> 
> 
> 
>     Hi, I'm Fred, the author of the "Everything You Need To Know" 
> 
>     channel on Youtube. I have a 3 minute video about Python 
> 
>     programming aimed at beginners:
> 
> 
> 
>     "What do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results"
> 
> 
> 
>     If you're interested in Python programming or the Mandelbrot set,
> 
>     you might like my videos.
> 
> 
> 
>     Thank you,
> 
> 
> 
>     Fred
> 
> 
> 


Definately! 
My original post I will admit was a little lazy, I was up until 2 am waiting for the video to upload and was really tired, these late nights have to be stopped I am moving to the country. My internet in Australia is one of my current biggest hurdles, uploading is terrible. 


> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should also be prepared to stick around long enough to answer any 
> 
> questions (or criticism!).
> 
> 
> 
> 

I will try to productive engage with the audience

> 
> 
> 
> Good luck,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Steven


Thank you Steven,

I value your comments highly.

Adam

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#76707

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Aug 20, 2014 9:51 PM, "Everything You Need To Know" <eyn2k@outlook.com>
wrote:
> I will post updates on one Post so as not to create new posts and I am
not making any money from this, also google owns youtube so I am only
helping google the owner of this Forum?

Google does not own or control this forum. The comp.lang.python group is
part of Usenet, which is not owned by anybody. The group is also bridged to
the python-list mailing list hosted by the Python Software Foundation. The
Google group is just a mirror of the Usenet group.

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#76708

On Thursday, 21 August 2014 14:33:19 UTC+9:30, Ian  wrote:
> On Aug 20, 2014 9:51 PM, "Everything You Need To Know" <ey...@outlook.com> wrote:
> 
> > I will post updates on one Post so as not to create new posts and I am not making any money from this, also google owns youtube so I am only helping google the owner of this Forum?
> 
> Google does not own or control this forum. The comp.lang.python group is part of Usenet, which is not owned by anybody. The group is also bridged to the python-list mailing list hosted by the Python Software Foundation. The Google group is just a mirror of the Usenet group.

O! that was a BIG misunderstanding of mine then, and I will seek to rectify this again. It is important that we admit our mistakes



And I will no longer be posting to this thread, It is simply going to be people calling me obnoxious and me calling them childish in and infinite loop!

CTRL + C someone please

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#76710

Everything You Need To Know <eyn2k@outlook.com> writes:

> On Thursday, 21 August 2014 14:33:19 UTC+9:30, Ian  wrote:
> > Google does not own or control this forum. The comp.lang.python
> > group is part of Usenet, which is not owned by anybody. The group is
> > also bridged to the python-list mailing list hosted by the Python
> > Software Foundation. The Google group is just a mirror of the Usenet
> > group.
>
> O! that was a BIG misunderstanding of mine then, and I will seek to
> rectify this again.

Thanks again for learning, I hope to see better participation soon.

-- 
 \     “Here is a test to see if your mission on earth is finished. If |
  `\                          you are alive, it isn't.” —Francis Bacon |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney

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#76720

On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 3:22 AM, Everything You Need To Know
<eyn2k@outlook.com> wrote:
> I do understand where you are coming from 'Chris "Kwpolska" Warrick', though, your own self serving link to your own website and unproductive post is closer to spam than my own, I offer something practical and positive to the community, even if the wrong community to post.

You are speaking of the link in the signature.  Signatures are not
considered “content”.  You weren’t forced to read the signature, you
could’ve stopped at the dash-dash-space line; hell: modern e-mail
clients would helpfully hide this, or change its color, or in a
different way state “signature — no need to care”.

Unlike you, I haven’t just posted “read this amazing blog post!  only
500 words!  it does not explain things thoroughly!” in a way that many
spam filters would (or should) catch.  In fact, I never posted a thing
to promote my blog to this list in my life.  Besides, this is a
discussion list — announcements would fit the announcement list better
(comp.lang.python.announce on usenet/python-announce as ML).

On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 1:08 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
> If you think it is spam (or at least borderline), perhaps you should not
> quote the url and provide links to the content?

Oh, sorry.  I forgot to edit and just had the message reproduced verbatim.

-- 
Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <http://chriswarrick.com/>
PGP: 5EAAEA16
stop html mail | always bottom-post | only UTF-8 makes sense

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#76713

On 8/20/2014 11:36 AM, Everything You Need To Know wrote:
> Neat little exercise, surprisingly cool results!
> less than 3 minutes!
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlDjl5JK0eU&feature=youtu.be

Dear EYNToK (Adam Nowak?, the name on the video?): I am both a long-term 
participant in this group and currently one of the behind-the-scenes 
moderators. Here are the mistakes you made.

0. You posted from Google Groups.
0a. GG is the source of at least half the spam targeted at python-list, 
including the stuff that gets caught and discarded by me or another 
moderator.  Google gives the appearance of being indifferent to being 
spam source #1. Or maybe they see it as a mark of success somehow.
0b. By default, GG does not follow normal and reasonable protocols. 
Google is obviously indifferent to that. At one time in the past, Google 
would have been cut off from usenet groups for GG's behavior. Now Google 
is too big and powerful and hence arrogant.
0c. Some posters, when requested, change the defaults as requested and 
instructed. Some do not, thereby asking to be ignored.

1. A pseudonym, but not just a pseudonym, but one that could be 
interpreted as intentionally obnoxious and 'in our faces', such as used 
by trolls.  I realize that as a newcomer, you don't know the history, 
but it affects people who have been around awhile.

2. Slightly deceptive subject line, to your detriment. The video is 
about simulating indefinite precision long division with python. This is 
a quite legitimate beginner exercise. The 1/998001 example is just an 
illustration of the value of being able to get more than 18 decimal digits.

3. The form of your post! It screams 'I am spam!' Judgment in 3 seconds!

In sum, if this post had been presented to me by the spam filter for 
action, and I had acted without viewing the video, especially late at 
night when tired, I might have deleted it.

Having watched the video, I now know that would have been a mistake. As 
Steven said, properly formatted occasional announcements of free 
python-related resources are on-topic. (If we got multiple such 
announcements every day, we might change the rules.) I agree with the 
rest of his excellent post.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy

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#76714

On Thursday, 21 August 2014 16:55:44 UTC+9:30, Terry Reedy  wrote:
> On 8/20/2014 11:36 AM, Everything You Need To Know wrote:
> 
> > Neat little exercise, surprisingly cool results!
> 
> > less than 3 minutes!
> 
> >
> 
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlDjl5JK0eU&feature=youtu.be
> 
> 
> 
> Dear EYNToK (Adam Nowak?, the name on the video?): I am both a long-term 
> 
> participant in this group and currently one of the behind-the-scenes 
> 
> moderators. Here are the mistakes you made.
> 
> 
> 
> 0. You posted from Google Groups.
> 
> 0a. GG is the source of at least half the spam targeted at python-list, 
> 
> including the stuff that gets caught and discarded by me or another 
> 
> moderator.  Google gives the appearance of being indifferent to being 
> 
> spam source #1. Or maybe they see it as a mark of success somehow.
> 
> 0b. By default, GG does not follow normal and reasonable protocols. 
> 
> Google is obviously indifferent to that. At one time in the past, Google 
> 
> would have been cut off from usenet groups for GG's behavior. Now Google 
> 
> is too big and powerful and hence arrogant.
> 
> 0c. Some posters, when requested, change the defaults as requested and 
> 
> instructed. Some do not, thereby asking to be ignored.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. A pseudonym, but not just a pseudonym, but one that could be 
> 
> interpreted as intentionally obnoxious and 'in our faces', such as used 
> 
> by trolls.  I realize that as a newcomer, you don't know the history, 
> 
> but it affects people who have been around awhile.
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Slightly deceptive subject line, to your detriment. The video is 
> 
> about simulating indefinite precision long division with python. This is 
> 
> a quite legitimate beginner exercise. The 1/998001 example is just an 
> 
> illustration of the value of being able to get more than 18 decimal digits.
> 
> 
> 
> 3. The form of your post! It screams 'I am spam!' Judgment in 3 seconds!
> 
> 
> 
> In sum, if this post had been presented to me by the spam filter for 
> 
> action, and I had acted without viewing the video, especially late at 
> 
> night when tired, I might have deleted it.
> 
> 
> 
> Having watched the video, I now know that would have been a mistake. As 
> 
> Steven said, properly formatted occasional announcements of free 
> 
> python-related resources are on-topic. (If we got multiple such 
> 
> announcements every day, we might change the rules.) I agree with the 
> 
> rest of his excellent post.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Terry Jan Reedy

Well said

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