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Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results

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On Friday, August 22, 2014 1:45:23 AM UTC+5:30, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 8/21/2014 12:50 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > Ben Finney wrote:
> >> Everything You Need To Know writes:
> >>> I guess I have to agree and was mistaken, though vitriol I found
> >>> unnecessary and unproductive!
> >> You've behaved obnoxiously, as has been pointed out.
> > People can point out anything they like, it does not mean it is necessarily
> > so. Adam ("Everything You Need To Know") has perhaps posted unwisely and
> > clumsily, but obnoxiously?
> >      Obnoxious (noun):
> >      very offensive; hateful; odious; reprehensible.
> > What did Adam do that was *obnoxious*? Here are some of the accusations
> > thrown at him:
> > - his "fancy" video is too simple for the "skilled Python programmers" at
> > this forum and is "barely original";
> > - he posted using a "self-aggrandising name" instead of his "real name";
> > - he posted a link to another website (oh the horror!!!);
> > - his post is "spam" (commercial, unsolicited advertising);
> > - he posted as a member of a group instead of an individual.
> > And that's pretty much it.
> > I reject any suggestion that Adam's post is "obnoxious" or that it is spam.
> > It is clearly on-topic. Frankly, I am ashamed at the closed-minded
> > hostility demonstrated here in this thread. Ben, I believe that your
> > behaviour goes against the spirit of the Python Community Code of Conduct,
> > if not the actual letter of CoC. Can you honestly say that you have been
> > Open, Considerate, and Respectful in telling Adam that his post
> > was "obnoxious" and that his post is "not appropriate" just because it is
> > hosted on YouTube?
> > This is supposed to be a welcoming place. Does anyone think we as a
> > community have been welcoming to Adam?
> > - We jumped down his throat for a couple of minor social faux pas, like
> > failing to sign his post with a name.
> > - We displayed the most odious double-standards: we attacked Adam for
> > posting on behalf of a group, but when members of the PSF or the Python
> > core developers make an announcement or post speaking for those groups, we
> > accept their right to do so without question.
> > - We allow long-time community members to link to external forums, we accept
> > them including links to their own blogs and websites, but accused Adam of
> > being a spammer because he linked to an on-topic video hosted on YouTube.
> > - We've made the most egregious and unjustified generalisations, speaking
> > for others without their consent, by insisting that "most" of us here are
> > too experienced to care for Adam's post. I'm an experienced Python
> > programmer, I've been contributing here and on other forums for over a
> > decade, and I learned something new from Adam's video.
> > Earlier, I posted on how Adam could have, *should* have, engaged with us.
> > But we should have engaged with him too:
> > - we should have assumed good faith, instead of accusing him of being a
> > spammer;
> > - we should have been welcoming, instead of exclusionary and elitist;
> > - we should have given him constructive criticism for his video, since it is
> > on-topic, rather than being so carelessly dismissive;
> > - or even just ignored it, if you don't like instructional videos;
> > - we should be respectful of people's right to prefer video over text, as
> > misguided as I personally believe it to be, some people like it;
> > - and we should be forgiving of minor faux pas and gaffes, rather than going
> > on the attack as we did.
> > Adam, for myself, I am sorry that we allowed a few mild gaffes on your part
> > lead to such a hostile reception for you, but please have a belated
> > welcome.

> Thank you for posting this Steven. As a list admin, I pretty much agree 
> with everything you said.  Some people are caught in a negative feedback 
> cycle and all should step out of it and stop.

Thanks Steven, Terry for that.
I would like to add: Often behavior that is labeled obnoxious comes from
people who have no clue about it.

Google groups is a typical example because GG works (kinda) for people
who use GG. IOW GG hides its own problems; whereas it hits other
users.  [I had no idea that the long lines is an issue until rurpy
pointed it out] In this case the additional gaffe in the same direction
is that python-list is owned by Google(!!).

Adam: I do request you once again to read and
'action'¹ https://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython

--------------
¹ Am I the only one who finds nouns used as verbs obnoxious?<wink>

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what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Everything You Need To Know <eyn2k@outlook.com> - 2014-08-20 08:36 -0700
  Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2014-08-20 18:05 +0200
    Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-21 09:08 +1000
      Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Everything You Need To Know <eyn2k@outlook.com> - 2014-08-20 18:22 -0700
        Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-21 11:41 +1000
        Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-08-21 11:35 +1000
          Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Everything You Need To Know <eyn2k@outlook.com> - 2014-08-20 19:07 -0700
            Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-08-21 14:39 +1000
              Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-08-20 21:49 -0700
                Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Everything You Need To Know <eyn2k@outlook.com> - 2014-08-20 22:08 -0700
                Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-08-21 15:26 +1000
                Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Everything You Need To Know <eyn2k@outlook.com> - 2014-08-20 22:38 -0700
                Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-21 15:49 +1000
                Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Everything You Need To Know <eyn2k@outlook.com> - 2014-08-20 23:09 -0700
                Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-21 16:50 +1000
                Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Everything You Need To Know <eyn2k@outlook.com> - 2014-08-20 23:52 -0700
                Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-08-21 09:19 +0100
                Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-08-21 09:15 +0100
                Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-08-21 15:54 +1000
                Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-22 02:50 +1000
                Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-08-21 16:15 -0400
                Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-08-21 15:09 -0700
                Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-08-22 07:15 +1000
                Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Everything You Need To Know <eyn2k@outlook.com> - 2014-08-21 16:10 -0700
                Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2014-08-21 19:28 -0400
                Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Everything You Need To Know <eyn2k@outlook.com> - 2014-08-24 17:04 -0700
                Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-25 10:08 +1000
                Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-08-22 02:27 +0100
                Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-08-21 22:58 +0100
                Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-08-20 22:31 -0700
            Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-08-21 09:09 +0100
        Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-21 02:36 +0000
          Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-08-20 19:46 -0700
          Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Everything You Need To Know <eyn2k@outlook.com> - 2014-08-20 20:48 -0700
            Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-08-20 23:03 -0600
              Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Everything You Need To Know <eyn2k@outlook.com> - 2014-08-20 23:18 -0700
                Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-08-21 16:30 +1000
        Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2014-08-21 10:23 +0200
  Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-08-21 03:25 -0400
    Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Everything You Need To Know <eyn2k@outlook.com> - 2014-08-21 00:40 -0700
      Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-08-21 09:24 +0100
  Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Everything You Need To Know <eyn2k@outlook.com> - 2014-08-21 06:25 -0700
    Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results luofeiyu <elearn2014@gmail.com> - 2014-08-21 21:37 +0800
      Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-08-21 19:50 +0000
      Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-08-21 15:21 -0700
    Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-08-21 16:10 -0400
  Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results Dan Stromberg <drsalists@gmail.com> - 2014-08-21 15:15 -0700

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