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What does it take to implement a chat system in Python (Not asking for code just advice before I start my little project)

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  What does it take to implement a chat system in Python (Not asking for code just advice before I start my little project) Aseem Bansal <asmbansal2@gmail.com> - 2013-07-17 21:36 -0700
    Re: What does it take to implement a chat system in Python (Not asking for code just advice before I start my little project) vikash agrawal <vikashagrawal1990@gmail.com> - 2013-07-18 10:22 +0530
      Re: What does it take to implement a chat system in Python (Not asking for code just advice before I start my little project) Aseem Bansal <asmbansal2@gmail.com> - 2013-07-17 23:11 -0700
        Re: What does it take to implement a chat system in Python (Not asking for code just advice before I start my little project) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-18 16:25 +1000
          Re: What does it take to implement a chat system in Python (Not asking for code just advice before I start my little project) Aseem Bansal <asmbansal2@gmail.com> - 2013-07-17 23:36 -0700
            Re: What does it take to implement a chat system in Python (Not asking for code just advice before I start my little project) Andrew Berg <robotsondrugs@gmail.com> - 2013-07-18 01:49 -0500
              Re: What does it take to implement a chat system in Python (Not asking for code just advice before I start my little project) Aseem Bansal <asmbansal2@gmail.com> - 2013-07-18 00:05 -0700
                Re: What does it take to implement a chat system in Python (Not asking for code just advice before I start my little project) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-18 17:13 +1000
                  Re: What does it take to implement a chat system in Python (Not asking for code just advice before I start my little project) Aseem Bansal <asmbansal2@gmail.com> - 2013-07-18 00:29 -0700
                    Re: What does it take to implement a chat system in Python (Not asking for code just advice before I start my little project) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-18 17:34 +1000
                      Re: What does it take to implement a chat system in Python (Not asking for code just advice before I start my little project) Aseem Bansal <asmbansal2@gmail.com> - 2013-07-18 00:48 -0700
                        Re: What does it take to implement a chat system in Python (Not asking for code just advice before I start my little project) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-18 17:52 +1000
                          Re: What does it take to implement a chat system in Python (Not asking for code just advice before I start my little project) Aseem Bansal <asmbansal2@gmail.com> - 2013-07-18 01:10 -0700
                            Re: What does it take to implement a chat system in Python (Not asking for code just advice before I start my little project) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-18 18:37 +1000
                        Re: What does it take to implement a chat system in Python (Not asking for code just advice before I start my little project) aseem bansal <aseembansal@ymail.com> - 2013-07-18 01:04 -0700
                    Re: What does it take to implement a chat system in Python (Not asking for code just advice before I start my little project) Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-07-18 13:04 -0400
                    Re: What does it take to implement a chat system in Python (Not asking for code just advice before I start my little project) Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2013-07-18 20:55 +0300
                      Re: What does it take to implement a chat system in Python (Not asking for code just advice before I start my little project) Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-18 18:02 +0000
                        Re: What does it take to implement a chat system in Python (Not asking for code just advice before I start my little project) Owen Marshall <o@owenmarshall.invalid> - 2013-07-18 18:19 +0000
                          Re: What does it take to implement a chat system in Python (Not asking for code just advice before I start my little project) Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-07-18 16:40 -0600
                            Re: What does it take to implement a chat system in Python (Not asking for code just advice before I start my little project) Owen Marshall <o@owenmarshall.invalid> - 2013-07-19 00:54 +0000
            Re: What does it take to implement a chat system in Python (Not asking for code just advice before I start my little project) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-18 16:49 +1000
          Re: What does it take to implement a chat system in Python (Not asking for code just advice before I start my little project) Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-18 13:00 +0000
          Re: What does it take to implement a chat system in Python (Not asking for code just advice before I start my little project) Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2013-07-19 11:25 +0000
            Re: What does it take to implement a chat system in Python (Not asking for code just advice before I start my little project) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-19 21:56 +1000
    Re: What does it take to implement a chat system in Python (Not asking for code just advice before I start my little project) "Eric S. Johansson" <esj@harvee.org> - 2013-07-18 01:39 -0400
      Re: What does it take to implement a chat system in Python (Not asking for code just advice before I start my little project) Aseem Bansal <asmbansal2@gmail.com> - 2013-07-17 22:50 -0700
    Re: What does it take to implement a chat system in Python (Not asking for code just advice before I start my little project) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-18 16:15 +1000
    Re: What does it take to implement a chat system in Python (Not asking for code just advice before I start my little project) Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-07-18 16:34 -0600
    Re: What does it take to implement a chat system in Python (Not asking for code just advice before I start my little project) Jake Angulo <jake.angulo@gmail.com> - 2013-07-19 17:10 +1000
    Re: What does it take to implement a chat system in Python (Not asking for code just advice before I start my little project) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-19 17:17 +1000

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#50823 — What does it take to implement a chat system in Python (Not asking for code just advice before I start my little project)

I wanted to do a little project for learning Python. I thought a chat system will be good as it isn't something that I have ever done. 

I wanted to know what will I need? I think that would require me these
1 learn network/socket programming
2 find a free server to host my chat server
3 GUI development for clients

-I wanted to know whether these are all that I would need or are there more things? 
-Will I need to learn a web framework like Django? 
-Will I need to learn something for database management like sql for handling people's account names and password? 

Is google appengine good for hosting the website or should I look up at django hosting websites?

Any other advice for me(a novice programmer)?

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#50827

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Hi Aseem,

First of all great thought and all the best for the learning!


On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 10:06 AM, Aseem Bansal <asmbansal2@gmail.com> wrote:

> I wanted to do a little project for learning Python. I thought a chat
> system will be good as it isn't something that I have ever done.
>
> I wanted to know what will I need? I think that would require me these
> 1 learn network/socket programming
>

Yes! sockets are the heart and soul of chat sys :-)


> 2 find a free server to host my chat server
>

You can use many, but I would suggest heroku for your free apps.


> 3 GUI development for clients
>
>
There are many python libraries Tkinter, PyQt, PyGtk, wxPython through
which you have GUI!


> -I wanted to know whether these are all that I would need or are there
> more things?
>

I think with above you are good to go!


> -Will I need to learn a web framework like Django?
>

That would really depend upon the type of chat application you are relying
upon. For a command line utility I think you can skip it, but if you wish
to have good-looking web version then yes, give Django a shot! But yes do
see other frameworks as well, just for finding out, learning and knowing
more :)


> -Will I need to learn something for database management like sql for
> handling people's account names and password?
>

Yes, it will be good decision to use DB to store names and chat histories
(with timestamp) and have your logs ready


>
> Is google appengine good for hosting the website or should I look up at
> django hosting websites?
>

Its good too :)


>
> Any other advice for me(a novice programmer)?
>

Make mistakes and fail early!

Python is awesome! But do try to learn the best practices. For eg, reverse
a string string[::-1] etc.



> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Regards
~Vikash

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#50832

@vikash agrawal

About GUI I discussed it at https://groups.google.com/forum/#!starred/comp.lang.python/M-Dy2pyWRfM and I am thinking about using PySide 1.2 for clients of chat system. I think I'll need downloadable clients if I want to make something like google talk. Then I'll need to implement server side programming also. I think google app engine would be suitable for this as it is going to be always online.

In the above scenario I wanted to know whether the database can be stored on google app engine itself? Is it possible? Having a chat system with server online and DB offline isn't going to be good. Should I consider heroku for this or can it be done using google app engine? Is it viable to have the DB on google appengine itself?

About using web frameworks, in the above scenario when there isn't an online website for chat would I need web frameworks? I am confused about this. Can server side programming be done in Python or by using a web framework only?

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#50834

On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Aseem Bansal <asmbansal2@gmail.com> wrote:
> @vikash agrawal
>
> About GUI I discussed it at https://groups.google.com/forum/#!starred/comp.lang.python/M-Dy2pyWRfM and I am thinking about using PySide 1.2 for clients of chat system. I think I'll need downloadable clients if I want to make something like google talk. Then I'll need to implement server side programming also. I think google app engine would be suitable for this as it is going to be always online.

Hrm. Rather than pointing people to Google Groups, which a number here
(and not unreasonably) detest, you may want to link to the python-list
archive:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2013-July/thread.html#651359

> About using web frameworks, in the above scenario when there isn't an online website for chat would I need web frameworks? I am confused about this. Can server side programming be done in Python or by using a web framework only?

You can certainly do your server-side programming directly in Python;
in fact, I recommend it for this task. There's no reason to use HTTP,
much less a web framework (which usually consists of a structured way
to build HTML pages, plus a bunch of routing and stuff, none of which
you need). All you need is a simple structure for separating one
message from another. I would recommend either going MUD/TELNET style
and ending each message with a newline, or prefixing each message with
its length in octets. Both ways work very nicely; newline-termination
allows you to use a MUD client for debugging, which I find very
convenient (full disclosure: I am the author of multiple MUD clients,
including one that's zero-dollar and another that's free).

ChrisA

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#50835

@Chris Angelico

Thanks. That cleared many doubts and your suggestions would definitely be useful. 

I am asking the next paragraph because you said about Python 3 helping with things. I am not looking for a debate or anything just a opinion. 

I learnt Python myself and everyone told me that Python 2 is status quo so I learned Python 2 and have been working with it. I am just 1.5 months in Python programming so should I consider switching to Python 3 if it helps with new things or should I stick with Python 2 to get a taste of what is currently out there?

About Pike, thanks for the heads up. But for now I'll use Python. I wanted to learn Python through this project. I'll leave Pike for later. Maybe Phase 1.5.

Aren't you guys posting in google groups? I thought you were because I can see your posts here. How do I post in python mailing list and see its archives instead of posting on google groups?

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#50836

On 2013.07.18 01:36, Aseem Bansal wrote:
> I learnt Python myself and everyone told me that Python 2 is status quo so I learned Python 2 and have been working with it. I am just 1.5 months in Python programming so should I consider switching to Python 3 if it helps with new things or should I stick with Python 2 to get a taste of what is currently out there?
Python 2 is what some people are stuck with because their projects depend on huge libraries that have not yet made all their code compatible
with Python 3 (or on libraries that are not actively maintained or are being replaced by something else). All new code and new Python users
should be using Python 3 unless there is a pressing need for a library that requires Python 2.
Most popular libraries at this point have either been made compatible or have been replaced by something that supports Python 3. Python 3 is
no longer the shiny new thing to look at in the future - 3.0 was released in December 2008.

-- 
CPython 3.3.2 | Windows NT 6.2.9200 / FreeBSD 9.1

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#50838

@Andrew Berg
@Chris Angelico

Is there a way to have both Python 2 and 3 installed on my computer till I can update the little codebase that I have built? Can I make different commands for invoking python 2 and Python 3? I am using Windows 7 and use Windows Powershell as an alternative to the linux terminal. Any suggestions about how to do that instead of breaking all my code at once?

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#50839

On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 5:05 PM, Aseem Bansal <asmbansal2@gmail.com> wrote:
> @Andrew Berg
> @Chris Angelico
>
> Is there a way to have both Python 2 and 3 installed on my computer till I can update the little codebase that I have built? Can I make different commands for invoking python 2 and Python 3? I am using Windows 7 and use Windows Powershell as an alternative to the linux terminal. Any suggestions about how to do that instead of breaking all my code at once?

Yep! And in fact, Python 3.3 includes a launcher that makes it fairly
easy. Just install another version, and then check this out:

http://docs.python.org/3.3/using/windows.html#launcher

You can use a Unix-style shebang to specify which Python version some
script depends on.

ChrisA

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#50841

@ChrisA

Thanks. That's great. That solved the whole thing easily. I'll install Python 3 and start updating today.

About reading comp.lang.python can you suggest how to read it and reply? I have never read a newsgroup leave alone participated in one. I am used to forums like stackoverflow. Any way to read it and reply by one interface? If not, give any suggestion. I'll use that.

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#50842

On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 5:29 PM, Aseem Bansal <asmbansal2@gmail.com> wrote:
> @ChrisA
>
> Thanks. That's great. That solved the whole thing easily. I'll install Python 3 and start updating today.
>
> About reading comp.lang.python can you suggest how to read it and reply? I have never read a newsgroup leave alone participated in one. I am used to forums like stackoverflow. Any way to read it and reply by one interface? If not, give any suggestion. I'll use that.

Easiest, if you're not familiar with newsgroups, is to subscribe to
the mailing list.

Subscribe here:

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Then you get an email every time anyone posts. Threading should be
handled by any decent mail client, and you just hit Reply-List (or
Reply and change the address to python-list@python.org) to post a
follow-up.

It's a good system. Works for myriad lists. The software that runs
this one (Mailman) is even written in Python, so you're using Python
to discuss Python :)

ChrisA

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#50843

@ChrisA

I subscribed to it. How do I reply to a message that has already been posted before my subscription?

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#50844

On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 5:48 PM, Aseem Bansal <asmbansal2@gmail.com> wrote:
> @ChrisA
>
> I subscribed to it. How do I reply to a message that has already been posted before my subscription?

Not easily, far as I know. But you now have this reply, and you can
always just post something with the right subject line and hope that
people pick up that it's part of the same discussion topic. Transition
isn't the cleanest but once it's done it's done.

ChrisA

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#50845

I tried replying to your message by mail. I used the reply button and send it to "python-list@python.org"? Or do I need to use "pytho...@python.org" as you wrote in your post?

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#50846

On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 6:10 PM, Aseem Bansal <asmbansal2@gmail.com> wrote:
> I tried replying to your message by mail. I used the reply button and send it to "python-list@python.org"? Or do I need to use "pytho...@python.org" as you wrote in your post?

You replied correctly. The ellipsis was presumably an anti-spam
feature. Send to python-list at python dot org to post.

ChrisA

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#50852

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Ok I'll mail by e-mail now. Hope that it reaches the place correctly.

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#50859

On 7/18/2013 3:29 AM, Aseem Bansal wrote:

> About reading comp.lang.python can you suggest how to read it and
> reply?

To read this list as a newsgroup use news.gmane.org. The difference 
between the mailing list interface and newsgroup interface is that the 
latter automatically segregates messages by group and only downloads the 
messages you want to read. Gmane is also a better way to search the archive.

> I have never read a newsgroup leave alone participated in one.
> I am used to forums like stackoverflow. Any way to read it and reply
> by one interface? If not, give any suggestion. I'll use that.

I use Thunderbird. There is almost no difference between replying to 
emails and replying to newsgroup posts.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy

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#50861

18.07.13 20:04, Terry Reedy написав(ла):
> On 7/18/2013 3:29 AM, Aseem Bansal wrote:
>> About reading comp.lang.python can you suggest how to read it and
>> reply?
>
> To read this list as a newsgroup use news.gmane.org. The difference
> between the mailing list interface and newsgroup interface is that the
> latter automatically segregates messages by group and only downloads the
> messages you want to read. Gmane is also a better way to search the
> archive.

Also newsgroup interface allow you reply to messages that have already 
been posted before your subscription.

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#50862

On 2013-07-18, Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> wrote:
> 18.07.13 20:04, Terry Reedy ??????????????(????):
>> On 7/18/2013 3:29 AM, Aseem Bansal wrote:
>>> About reading comp.lang.python can you suggest how to read it and
>>> reply?
>>
>> To read this list as a newsgroup use news.gmane.org. The difference
>> between the mailing list interface and newsgroup interface is that the
>> latter automatically segregates messages by group and only downloads the
>> messages you want to read. Gmane is also a better way to search the
>> archive.
>
> Also newsgroup interface allow you reply to messages that have already 
> been posted before your subscription.

Indeed.  I read about 20 mailing lists by pointing a newsreader (I use
slrn) at gmane.org.  I find it to take far less effort than actualling
having all of those messages actually sent to me.  For _some_ of the
gmane groups/lists you will actually have to subscribe to the mailing
list in question if you want to be allowed to post messages -- but in
your account settings for that mailing list server you can turn off
delivery, so that it doesn't actually send you any of the postings.

I really can't recommend gmane.org highly enough.

[I don't actually read the python list using gmane.org, since I've
read it from a Usenet news server via the group comp.lang.python since
long before I discovered gmane.org.]

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Not SENSUOUS ... only
                                  at               "FROLICSOME" ... and in
                              gmail.com            need of DENTAL WORK ... in
                                                   PAIN!!!

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#50864

On 2013-07-18, Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 2013-07-18, Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 18.07.13 20:04, Terry Reedy ??????????????(????):
>>> On 7/18/2013 3:29 AM, Aseem Bansal wrote:
>>>> About reading comp.lang.python can you suggest how to read it and
>>>> reply?
>>>
>>> To read this list as a newsgroup use news.gmane.org. The difference
>>> between the mailing list interface and newsgroup interface is that the
>>> latter automatically segregates messages by group and only downloads the
>>> messages you want to read. Gmane is also a better way to search the
>>> archive.
>>
>> Also newsgroup interface allow you reply to messages that have already
>> been posted before your subscription.
>
> Indeed.  I read about 20 mailing lists by pointing a newsreader (I use
> slrn) at gmane.org.  I find it to take far less effort than actualling
> having all of those messages actually sent to me.  For _some_ of the
> gmane groups/lists you will actually have to subscribe to the mailing
> list in question if you want to be allowed to post messages -- but in
> your account settings for that mailing list server you can turn off
> delivery, so that it doesn't actually send you any of the postings.
>
> I really can't recommend gmane.org highly enough.
>
> [I don't actually read the python list using gmane.org, since I've
> read it from a Usenet news server via the group comp.lang.python since
> long before I discovered gmane.org.]
>

Huh - I (foolishly) didn't realize gmane actually had NNTP, I've always
used it to search mailing lists. If the list dumped to usenet (much like
c.l.python) I'd post through sunsite.dk, which is a very nice usenet
provider. But that still meant several annoying mailing list
subscriptions.

... man, I'm really glad I read your post :-)

--
      -owen

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#50873

On 07/18/2013 12:19 PM, Owen Marshall wrote:
> Huh - I (foolishly) didn't realize gmane actually had NNTP, I've always
> used it to search mailing lists. If the list dumped to usenet (much like
> c.l.python) I'd post through sunsite.dk, which is a very nice usenet
> provider. But that still meant several annoying mailing list
> subscriptions.
> 
> ... man, I'm really glad I read your post :-)

I'm a bit confused.  This list *is* c.l.python (I happen to read via
e-mail through the mailing list).  So you can reach it from sunsite.dk
can you not?

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