Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster?

From	BartC <bc@freeuk.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.python
Subject	Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster?
Date	2016-03-10 14:22 +0000
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<nbrvpj$5lm$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(18 earlier) <mailman.108.1457595070.15725.python-list@python.org> <nbrms1$26p$1@dont-email.me> <mailman.123.1457612163.15725.python-list@python.org> <nbrq7b$eeu$1@dont-email.me> <mailman.127.1457615320.15725.python-list@python.org>

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On 10/03/2016 13:08, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 11:47 PM, BartC <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:

>> You just don't get it.
>
> Both of you "just don't get" something that the other sees as
> critically important. Before this thread gets to fisticuffs, may I
> please summarize the points that probably nobody will concede?
>
> 1) Unicode support, intrinsic to the language, is crucial, even if
> BartC refuses to recognize this. Anything released beyond the confines
> of his personal workspace will need full Unicode support, otherwise it
> is a problem to the rest of the world, and should be destroyed with
> fire. Thanks.

I don't agree. If I distribute some text in the form of a series of 
ASCII byte values (eg. classic TXT format, with either kind of line 
separator), then that same data can be directly interpreted as UTF-8.

(And as you know, the first 128 Unicode code points correspond with the 
128 ASCII codes. Widening such a data-set so that each 8-bit character 
becomes 32-bit will also give you a set of Unicode code-points.)

Importing a text file from elsewhere is a different problem of course. 
Although out of the thousands of times I must have done this, 
Unicode-related issues have been minimal.

> 3) There is a point at which performance ceases to matter for a given
> application. This point varies from app to app, but generally is
> reached when I/O wait time dwarfs CPU usage.

Also when the total runtime is negligible anyway. It doesn't matter if a 
program takes 200msec instead of 20msec. (Unless millions of such tasks 
are scheduled.)

> When people want better performance out of a number-crunching Python
> program, they have a few options. One is to rewrite their code in C or
> Fortran or something. Another is to make small tweaks so the bulk of
> the work is handled by numpy or Cython. A third is to keep their code
> completely unchanged, but run it under PyPy instead of whatever they
> were previously using (probably CPython). Generally, rewriting in
> C/Fortran is generally a bad idea; you pay the price over the whole
> application, when optimizing a small subset of it would give 99% of
> the performance improvement. That's why actual CPython byte-code
> interpretation performance isn't so critical; if we can change 5% of
> the code so it uses numpy, we keep 95% of it in idiomatic Python,
> while still having the bulk of the work done in Fortran. CPython has
> other priorities than performance - not to say that "slow is fine",
> but more that "slow and dynamic opens up possibilities that fast and
> static precludes, so we're happy to pay the price for the features we
> want".

Generally agree. But also, I often develop an algorithm using a dynamic 
language, because it's much easier and quicker to try out different 
things, before porting the result to a static language.

But during development, it doesn't hurt if the dynamic version isn't 
quite so slow!

-- 
Bartc

Thread

Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Tony van der Hoff <tony@vanderhoff.org> - 2016-03-06 11:34 +0000
  Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-07 01:41 +1100
    Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Tony van der Hoff <tony@vanderhoff.org> - 2016-03-07 10:45 +0000
    Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Andrew Jaffe <a.h.jaffe@gmail.com> - 2016-03-07 11:54 +0000
    Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2016-03-07 17:33 -0500
  Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-07 11:02 +0000
    Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-03-07 13:11 +0200
      Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-07 11:38 +0000
        Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Fabien <fabien.maussion@gmail.com> - 2016-03-07 13:19 +0100
          Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-07 13:25 +0000
            Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 02:31 +1100
              Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-07 18:34 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 06:10 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-07 20:19 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 07:47 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-07 22:39 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 10:40 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-08 00:22 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-08 00:43 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 11:45 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2016-03-08 00:47 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-03-07 20:29 -0500
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2016-03-07 22:51 -0500
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 17:34 -0700
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-09 13:01 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-09 11:38 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-03-08 11:05 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-08 01:00 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-08 01:12 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-08 01:47 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-08 02:45 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-08 11:09 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-08 16:09 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-08 19:15 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-08 20:44 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-08 22:38 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-09 10:59 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-09 08:40 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-09 12:02 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-09 21:13 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-09 23:14 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-09 23:35 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-10 00:58 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 12:28 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-10 07:30 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-10 11:50 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-10 12:15 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-10 12:47 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-11 00:08 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-10 14:22 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-10 19:26 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-11 16:29 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-11 18:57 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-11 21:59 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-11 22:24 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-12 16:59 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2016-03-12 10:06 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-12 10:31 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-12 10:51 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2016-03-12 15:36 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-13 14:22 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-12 10:34 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-12 21:40 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-11 07:07 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-11 16:06 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-11 16:36 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-10 13:18 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-11 00:30 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-10 13:46 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-03-10 18:43 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 18:55 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-10 12:59 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-10 12:19 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 10:38 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2016-03-09 23:48 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 11:03 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2016-03-10 02:38 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 14:43 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-10 01:30 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-03-10 13:29 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-10 14:32 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-10 13:45 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-03-10 11:21 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 12:23 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-08 01:33 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-03-08 12:38 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 12:40 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-08 02:02 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-03-08 13:28 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2016-03-08 02:47 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-08 11:15 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Jussi Piitulainen <jussi.piitulainen@helsinki.fi> - 2016-03-08 13:45 +0200
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-08 12:09 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2016-03-07 22:39 -0500
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-08 03:48 +0000
                What will I get when reading from a file? (was: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster?) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-03-08 11:09 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-08 13:12 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-08 11:53 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-09 10:28 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-09 00:09 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-09 11:36 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-03-08 21:03 -0500
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-10 03:07 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 14:48 +0200
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-08 12:34 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 12:49 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 15:05 +0200
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-08 12:19 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-08 01:41 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-08 15:40 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-08 13:49 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-08 16:15 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2016-03-08 09:23 -0800
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-08 19:02 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-09 11:04 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-09 01:28 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-09 13:18 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2016-03-09 02:11 -0800
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-09 14:03 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 01:11 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-09 14:39 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 01:54 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-10 02:33 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 02:58 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2016-03-09 14:56 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-10 02:28 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-10 01:57 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 02:04 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-09 16:53 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-10 01:54 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2016-03-09 15:06 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Tim Golden <mail@timgolden.me.uk> - 2016-03-09 15:15 +0000
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-10 02:38 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2016-03-09 10:42 -0500
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2016-03-09 09:04 -0800
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-03-09 08:08 +0200
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-09 22:52 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-03-09 14:53 +0200
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-10 03:53 +1100
                Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 17:42 -0700
        Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-08 02:53 +0000
    Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-07 19:02 +0000

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