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Groups > comp.lang.python > #104247
| From | Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.python |
| Subject | Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? |
| Date | 2016-03-08 06:10 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.43.1457377845.10335.python-list@python.org> (permalink) |
| References | (3 earlier) <nbjp1e$jhv$1@dont-email.me> <nbjrjm$m16$1@gioia.aioe.org> <nbjvas$h22$1@dont-email.me> <mailman.17.1457364684.10335.python-list@python.org> <nbkhei$dg6$1@dont-email.me> |
On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 5:34 AM, BartC <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
> On 07/03/2016 15:31, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 12:25 AM, BartC <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
>
>
>>> (The Python version of that program is here:
>>> http://pastebin.com/cHx3UhQb. It should work with any Python.)
>>
>>
>> Actually, it won't work with any Python - not if it gets a broken
>> file. Your abortjpeg() function doesn't work :)
>
>
> What does it do when it doesn't work? I just get 'can't load file' then it
> stops if there's no such file. With an extra message if there's a format
> error. (I'm not sure what 'raise' does, but it doesn't complain about it. I
> think I realised I didn't know what came next and left it.)
Here's your code:
def abortjpeg(mess):
print ("Error:",mess)
raise
Here's my Python:
$ python3
Python 3.6.0a0 (default:bbfbde6ee9d0, Feb 19 2016, 12:43:06)
[GCC 5.3.1 20160121] on linux
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> raise
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
RuntimeError: No active exception to reraise
The only try/except in your code (an except block is the only way
you'll have an "active exception") is this abomination:
def getfile(file):
try:
data=open(file,"rb").read()
except:
return 0
...
>> But what you have there is a messy mixture of old-style classes used
>> as if they were C structs, array.array() as if it were a C array, and
>> utterly uncommented code that looks like it was ported from, again, C.
>> Benchmarking Py2 vs Py3 on that kind of code is like trying to figure
>> out whether it's easier to drag a 747 by your teeth or your toes.
>> Yeah, you might get a result, but it's a useless one.
>
>
> I disagree. The program does its job perfectly (you will have to take it
> further to verify the results, such as writing out the .ppm file and viewing
> the contents).
>
> But Py3 is slower doing this task than Py2 by 10 or 20% (or even 30% for a
> smaller file). /This is in line with other observations./
What's your meaning of "perfectly"? You're implementing things in a
very C way, and then showing that two different Python interpreters
have different performance. You haven't actually shown how a
properly-written program would perform.
>> You're not going to prove anything useful about Python - any version
>> of Python - by using it badly. Try implementing JPEG decoding in a
>> more Pythonic way - or, better still, use pillow and don't write that
>> kind of code yourself at all.
>
> Before I wrote this, I looked at three other existing Python decoders, all
> more Pythonic (one had been ported from C++ I think and was crammed full of
> classes).
>
> One worked so poorly that it was dismissed. The other two were full of bugs
> and didn't fully support the 3 main colour formats, but when they did work,
> were 3-6 times slower than my version IIRC.
>
> They also only worked with Python 2 (so presumably would have been even
> slower on 3!) It also meant I couldn't test PyPy on them. I tried psyco but
> it made little difference. And actually the main purpose was to have
> something substantial to try PyPy on.
>
> So I don't know who's using Python more badly: me or those other authors.
Did you try the 'pillow' library?
https://pypi.python.org/pypi/Pillow
It supports 2.6/2.7 and 3.2+, and would be most people's "one obvious
way" to do things. At very least, it should get a mention in your
performance comparisons.
> (I'm quite pleased with my version: smaller, faster, works on all the
> Pythons, supports all 3 colour formats and no decoding bugs that I'm aware
> of, and it's the first Python program I've written that does something
> useful.)
"all the Pythons" meaning what, exactly? And, no decoding bugs? Maybe,
but I wouldn't bet my life on it. Unless your code is a pure port of
someone else's (and unless that someone else could guarantee that the
original C code was bug free), I wouldn't trust code that I can't
completely analyze in one sitting. Virtually all code has bugs in it;
the only code that doesn't is code that's so trivially simple that you
can completely understand it in one "headspace".
ChrisA
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Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Tony van der Hoff <tony@vanderhoff.org> - 2016-03-06 11:34 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-07 01:41 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Tony van der Hoff <tony@vanderhoff.org> - 2016-03-07 10:45 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Andrew Jaffe <a.h.jaffe@gmail.com> - 2016-03-07 11:54 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2016-03-07 17:33 -0500
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-07 11:02 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-03-07 13:11 +0200
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-07 11:38 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Fabien <fabien.maussion@gmail.com> - 2016-03-07 13:19 +0100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-07 13:25 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 02:31 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-07 18:34 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 06:10 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-07 20:19 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 07:47 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-07 22:39 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 10:40 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-08 00:22 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-08 00:43 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 11:45 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2016-03-08 00:47 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-03-07 20:29 -0500
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2016-03-07 22:51 -0500
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 17:34 -0700
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-09 13:01 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-09 11:38 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-03-08 11:05 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-08 01:00 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-08 01:12 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-08 01:47 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-08 02:45 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-08 11:09 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-08 16:09 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-08 19:15 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-08 20:44 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-08 22:38 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-09 10:59 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-09 08:40 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-09 12:02 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-09 21:13 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-09 23:14 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-09 23:35 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-10 00:58 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 12:28 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-10 07:30 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-10 11:50 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-10 12:15 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-10 12:47 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-11 00:08 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-10 14:22 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-10 19:26 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-11 16:29 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-11 18:57 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-11 21:59 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-11 22:24 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-12 16:59 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2016-03-12 10:06 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-12 10:31 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-12 10:51 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2016-03-12 15:36 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-13 14:22 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-12 10:34 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-12 21:40 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-11 07:07 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-11 16:06 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-11 16:36 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-10 13:18 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-11 00:30 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-10 13:46 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-03-10 18:43 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 18:55 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-10 12:59 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-10 12:19 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 10:38 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2016-03-09 23:48 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 11:03 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2016-03-10 02:38 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 14:43 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-10 01:30 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-03-10 13:29 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-10 14:32 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-10 13:45 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-03-10 11:21 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 12:23 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-08 01:33 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-03-08 12:38 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 12:40 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-08 02:02 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-03-08 13:28 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2016-03-08 02:47 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-08 11:15 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Jussi Piitulainen <jussi.piitulainen@helsinki.fi> - 2016-03-08 13:45 +0200
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-08 12:09 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2016-03-07 22:39 -0500
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-08 03:48 +0000
What will I get when reading from a file? (was: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster?) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-03-08 11:09 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-08 13:12 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-08 11:53 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-09 10:28 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-09 00:09 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-09 11:36 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-03-08 21:03 -0500
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-10 03:07 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 14:48 +0200
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-08 12:34 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 12:49 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 15:05 +0200
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-08 12:19 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-08 01:41 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-08 15:40 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-08 13:49 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-08 16:15 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2016-03-08 09:23 -0800
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-08 19:02 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-09 11:04 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-09 01:28 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-09 13:18 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2016-03-09 02:11 -0800
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-09 14:03 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 01:11 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-09 14:39 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 01:54 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-10 02:33 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 02:58 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2016-03-09 14:56 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-10 02:28 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-10 01:57 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 02:04 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-03-09 16:53 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-10 01:54 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2016-03-09 15:06 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Tim Golden <mail@timgolden.me.uk> - 2016-03-09 15:15 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-10 02:38 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2016-03-09 10:42 -0500
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2016-03-09 09:04 -0800
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-03-09 08:08 +0200
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-09 22:52 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-03-09 14:53 +0200
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-03-10 03:53 +1100
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 17:42 -0700
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-08 02:53 +0000
Re: Pyhon 2.x or 3.x, which is faster? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-07 19:02 +0000
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