Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings)

From	Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.python
Subject	Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings)
Date	2016-07-19 15:27 +1000
Message-ID	<mailman.81.1468906047.2307.python-list@python.org> (permalink)
References	(16 earlier) <877fcjcllf.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <CAPTjJmqYuhfR68g4EWWfj=GQSQMBmo3r3DRCej39xLtjPfR2ow@mail.gmail.com> <mailman.71.1468836914.2307.python-list@python.org> <578da1b5$0$1591$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <CAPTjJmo+M8ru9Xfm_L3n3AS302f4Hzng-5sKn97eAEUok2gVmQ@mail.gmail.com>

Show all headers | View raw

On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 1:42 PM, Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> wrote:
>> And then you get these sorts of functions:
>>
>> EPSILON = 0.000001 # Adjust to control numeric accuracy
>> def is_equal(f1, f2, epsilon=EPSILON):
>>     if abs(f1) > abs(f2):
>>         f1, f2 = f2, f1
>>     return abs(f2-f1) < f1*epsilon
>>
>> and interminable debates about how to pick an epsilon, whether it
>> should be relative to the smaller value (as here) or the larger (use
>> f2 instead), or maybe should be an absolute value, or maybe it should
>> be relative to the largest/smallest value that was ever involved in
>> the calculation, or........
>
> Your code is buggy. Consider:
>
> py> is_equal(-1.0, -1.0)
> False

Duh, I got the < and <= bug! Shows how easy it is to get this kind of
function wrong. (Even more so, it shows how easy it is to get code
wrong when you type straight into an email and never test it.)

> Earlier you mentioned "interminable debates
> about how to pick an epsilon", but the reason for that is that it is
> really, really hard to pick an epsilon in any systematic, objective way.

Yeah, and that's the problem. If you're working with some concept of
measurement error, what you actually mean is that every number in your
calculation is actually a range centered on that number; which means
that "equality" really means "overlapping ranges". Epsilon-based
equality is just that, only with a global epsilon instead of one that
actually cares about the real error value. How can that NOT be doomed
to failure?

ChrisA

Thread

Clean Singleton Docstrings Rob Gaddi <rgaddi@highlandtechnology.invalid> - 2016-07-07 23:46 +0000
  Re: Clean Singleton Docstrings Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-08 12:53 +1000
  Re: Clean Singleton Docstrings Michael Selik <michael.selik@gmail.com> - 2016-07-07 23:43 -0400
    Re: Clean Singleton Docstrings Rob Gaddi <rgaddi@highlandtechnology.invalid> - 2016-07-08 16:57 +0000
      Re: Clean Singleton Docstrings Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2016-07-08 13:00 -0700
  Re: Clean Singleton Docstrings Peter Otten <__peter__@web.de> - 2016-07-08 09:38 +0200
    Re: Clean Singleton Docstrings Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-08 19:20 +1000
      Re: Clean Singleton Docstrings Rob Gaddi <rgaddi@highlandtechnology.invalid> - 2016-07-08 16:47 +0000
    Re: Clean Singleton Docstrings Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-07-13 15:42 -0700
      Re: Clean Singleton Docstrings Peter Otten <__peter__@web.de> - 2016-07-14 01:54 +0200
        Re: Clean Singleton Docstrings Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 21:04 -0700
          Re: Clean Singleton Docstrings Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2016-07-15 21:20 -0700
            Re: Clean Singleton Docstrings Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 22:51 -0700
            Re: Clean Singleton Docstrings Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 23:19 -0700
              Re: Clean Singleton Docstrings Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-16 16:29 +1000
              Re: Clean Singleton Docstrings Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-07-16 02:53 -0400
                Re: Clean Singleton Docstrings Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-16 18:54 +1000
                Re: Clean Singleton Docstrings Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-16 19:46 +1000
                What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-17 21:16 -0700
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 14:35 +1000
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-17 22:37 -0700
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 15:48 +1000
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-07-18 09:21 +0300
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-07-18 09:32 -0400
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-07-18 14:46 +1000
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-17 22:22 -0700
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-18 19:29 +1000
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-07-18 13:00 +0300
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 20:15 +1000
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 03:24 -0700
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 20:37 +1000
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-07-18 14:38 +0300
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Peter Otten <__peter__@web.de> - 2016-07-18 14:58 +0200
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-19 13:42 +1000
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 21:58 -0700
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-19 15:30 +1000
                Floating point equality [was Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings)] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-20 15:42 +1000
                Re: Floating point equality [was Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings)] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-20 16:11 +1000
                Re: Floating point equality [was Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings)] Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-07-20 09:09 +0200
                Re: Floating point equality [was Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings)] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-07-20 10:25 +0300
                Re: Floating point equality [was Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings)] Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-20 22:47 +1000
                Re: Floating point equality [was Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings)] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-07-20 16:54 +0300
                Re: Floating point equality [was Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings)] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-21 00:26 +1000
                Re: Floating point equality [was Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings)] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-07-20 17:59 +0300
                Re: Floating point equality [was Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings)] Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-20 22:38 -0700
                Re: Floating point equality [was Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings)] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-07-21 10:52 +0300
                Re: Floating point equality [was Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings)] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-21 18:46 +1000
                Re: Floating point equality [was Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings)] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-07-21 12:09 +0300
                Re: Floating point equality [was Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings)] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-22 00:54 +0100
                Re: Floating point equality [was Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings)] Chris Kaynor <ckaynor@zindagigames.com> - 2016-07-21 17:43 -0700
                Re: Floating point equality [was Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings)] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-22 17:14 +0100
                Re: Floating point equality [was Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings)] Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-20 22:28 -0700
                Re: Floating point equality [was Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings)] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-21 15:35 +1000
                Re: Floating point equality [was Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings)] Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-20 22:52 -0700
                Re: Floating point equality [was Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings)] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-21 16:34 +1000
                Re: Floating point equality [was Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings)] Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-21 06:14 -0700
                Re: Floating point equality [was Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings)] Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-22 02:10 +1000
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-19 15:27 +1000
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 03:14 -0700
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 09:25 -0600
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-07-18 18:40 +0300
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-07-18 18:55 +0300
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 11:13 -0600
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-07-18 21:58 +0300
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 17:36 -0700
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-19 13:16 +1000
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 20:26 -0700
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-07-19 01:22 -0400
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-07-19 10:46 -0700
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-07-19 16:35 -0400
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-07-20 01:17 +0300
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-07-19 23:15 -0400
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-07-20 10:16 +0300
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-07-20 10:00 -0400
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-07-21 10:46 +1200
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2016-07-19 16:27 -0600
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-07-20 02:09 +0300
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2016-07-20 13:24 +0000
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-21 14:04 +1000
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-07-19 17:01 -0700
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-07-20 11:07 +1200
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-07-20 02:20 +0300
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-19 13:03 +1000
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-07-18 09:25 -0400
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-19 13:21 +1000
                Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-07-19 10:21 +1000
              Re: Clean Singleton Docstrings Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-16 17:27 +1000
                Re: Clean Singleton Docstrings Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-07-16 10:58 +0300
              Re: Clean Singleton Docstrings Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-07-16 14:04 -0400
                Re: Clean Singleton Docstrings Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-07-16 21:43 +0300
              Re: Clean Singleton Docstrings Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-17 07:02 +1000
                Re: Clean Singleton Docstrings Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-07-17 00:27 +0300
                Re: Clean Singleton Docstrings Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-17 08:18 +1000
                Re: Clean Singleton Docstrings Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-07-17 10:41 +0300
                Re: Clean Singleton Docstrings Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-17 17:51 +1000
                Re: Clean Singleton Docstrings Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-07-17 04:03 -0400
                Re: Clean Singleton Docstrings Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-07-17 20:35 +1000
                Re: Clean Singleton Docstrings Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-07-17 04:08 -0400
                Re: Clean Singleton Docstrings Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-07-17 18:44 +1000
      Re: Clean Singleton Docstrings Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2016-07-13 18:25 -0600
  Re: Clean Singleton Docstrings Peter Otten <__peter__@web.de> - 2016-07-08 09:44 +0200
    Re: Clean Singleton Docstrings Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-07-08 01:53 -0700
  Re: What exactly is "exact" (was Clean Singleton Docstrings) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-07-19 23:16 -0400

csiph-web