Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > comp.lang.python > #109679
| Path | csiph.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail |
|---|---|
| From | Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> |
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.python |
| Subject | Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? |
| Date | Wed, 8 Jun 2016 16:18:22 +0200 |
| Lines | 42 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.80.1465395544.2306.python-list@python.org> (permalink) |
| References | <a1ff5170-e059-4379-b16a-d9eff8bc60a0@googlegroups.com> <1465148542.2670061.628500777.62F1EFE1@webmail.messagingengine.com> <mailman.12.1465148550.2306.python-list@python.org> <5754f36b$0$1619$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <1465186088.3554819.628831041.19D0DC8D@webmail.messagingengine.com> <mailman.20.1465186091.2306.python-list@python.org> <575599f4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <drn56cFn10fU1@mid.individual.net> <57569f6a$0$11124$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> <5756BED8.2000304@rece.vub.ac.be> <1465313620.1380508.630546953.7F7E755D@webmail.messagingengine.com> <5757CF15.4010002@rece.vub.ac.be> <mailman.70.1465372469.2306.python-list@python.org> <5757dbaf$0$1615$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <5757E840.80805@rece.vub.ac.be> <mailman.72.1465378914.2306.python-list@python.org> <nj8s9k$p3$1@dont-email.me> <5757FB1B.5000502@rece.vub.ac.be> <mailman.75.1465383739.2306.python-list@python.org> <nj93dn$pf1$1@dont-email.me> <5758292E.2020600@rece.vub.ac.be> |
| Mime-Version | 1.0 |
| Content-Type | text/plain; charset=utf-8 |
| Content-Transfer-Encoding | 7bit |
| X-Trace | news.uni-berlin.de bB6JQs6yXmlSX2jDlBaFPApBNFPrRiz2bFgmYYQjH/eA== |
| Return-Path | <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> |
| X-Original-To | python-list@python.org |
| Delivered-To | python-list@mail.python.org |
| X-Spam-Status | OK 0.002 |
| X-Spam-Evidence | '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'modified': 0.05; 'received:134': 0.05; 'assignment': 0.07; 'emulate': 0.07; 'assigning': 0.09; 'variables,': 0.09; 'python': 0.10; 'do,': 0.15; 'variables': 0.15; 'weird': 0.15; '"normal"': 0.16; 'assignment.': 0.16; 'assignments.': 0.16; 'distinct': 0.16; 'one- element': 0.16; 'received:ac.be': 0.16; 'received:io': 0.16; 'received:psf.io': 0.16; "wouldn't": 0.16; 'integer': 0.18; 'string,': 0.18; 'version.': 0.18; 'variable': 0.18; 'object.': 0.22; 'parameter': 0.22; 'pascal': 0.22; 'seems': 0.23; 'passing': 0.23; 'replacing': 0.23; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; 'header :User-Agent:1': 0.26; 'points': 0.27; 'parameters': 0.27; 'object,': 0.27; 'function': 0.28; 'received:be': 0.30; 'language.': 0.32; 'getting': 0.33; 'int': 0.33; 'limitations': 0.33; 'reference,': 0.33; 'similar': 0.33; 'that,': 0.34; 'list': 0.34; 'something': 0.35; 'but': 0.36; 'list,': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'there': 0.36; 'possible': 0.36; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.36; 'subject:?': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'two': 0.37; 'done.': 0.37; 'missing': 0.37; 'list.': 0.37; 'why': 0.39; 'does': 0.39; 'subject:the': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.40; 'still': 0.40; 'some': 0.40; 'determine': 0.61; 'programs': 0.62; 'back': 0.62; 'yourself': 0.73; 'completely,': 0.84; 'lacks': 0.84; 'schreef': 0.84; 'trick.': 0.84; 'refuse': 0.93 |
| X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered | true |
| X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result | ArIIAHYeUleGuA9G/2dsb2JhbABehFsBvRCGEgKCAAEBAQEBAWaEbQEBBCNVEQsaAgUWCwICCQMCAQIBRRMIAogrsU2NPoNbAQEIAiWBAYUmhE2FDII1glkBBJhFgVeMTYFph0qFaYY2iRxUg3CKfgEBAQ |
| User-Agent | Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/38.8.0 |
| In-Reply-To | <nj93dn$pf1$1@dont-email.me> |
| X-BeenThere | python-list@python.org |
| X-Mailman-Version | 2.1.22 |
| Precedence | list |
| List-Id | General discussion list for the Python programming language <python-list.python.org> |
| List-Unsubscribe | <https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=unsubscribe> |
| List-Archive | <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/> |
| List-Post | <mailto:python-list@python.org> |
| List-Help | <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=help> |
| List-Subscribe | <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=subscribe> |
| X-Mailman-Original-Message-ID | <5758292E.2020600@rece.vub.ac.be> |
| X-Mailman-Original-References | <a1ff5170-e059-4379-b16a-d9eff8bc60a0@googlegroups.com> <1465148542.2670061.628500777.62F1EFE1@webmail.messagingengine.com> <mailman.12.1465148550.2306.python-list@python.org> <5754f36b$0$1619$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <1465186088.3554819.628831041.19D0DC8D@webmail.messagingengine.com> <mailman.20.1465186091.2306.python-list@python.org> <575599f4$0$1595$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <drn56cFn10fU1@mid.individual.net> <57569f6a$0$11124$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> <5756BED8.2000304@rece.vub.ac.be> <1465313620.1380508.630546953.7F7E755D@webmail.messagingengine.com> <5757CF15.4010002@rece.vub.ac.be> <mailman.70.1465372469.2306.python-list@python.org> <5757dbaf$0$1615$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <5757E840.80805@rece.vub.ac.be> <mailman.72.1465378914.2306.python-list@python.org> <nj8s9k$p3$1@dont-email.me> <5757FB1B.5000502@rece.vub.ac.be> <mailman.75.1465383739.2306.python-list@python.org> <nj93dn$pf1$1@dont-email.me> |
| Xref | csiph.com comp.lang.python:109679 |
Show key headers only | View raw
Op 08-06-16 om 14:34 schreef BartC: > > So you have partial updates and full updates. A proper reference will > be able to do both via the reference. Python can only do a partial > update and the reason is that the reference points to the object, not > the variable; there is no way to change the variable to link it with > another, distinct object. > > If the object is a list, then that can be modified to any extent, even > replacing the contents completely, but it will still be a list. In the > case of an int or string, then it's impossible to change. So there are > limitations to what can be done. > > Getting back to Pascal (as I /can/ remember how reference parameters > work for integers), assigning to a reference integer parameter in a > function will change the caller's version. Python can only emulate > that by passing a one-element list or using some such trick. Affecting > readability and, likely, performance. > I don't see why we should determine what a /proper/ reference can do, based on what it does in one specific language. You can do something like that in simula, but only because simula has two kinds of assignments. One kind that is simular to python and one that is similar to C. The one that is similar that python is the reference assignment. I don't see why the variables in python wouldn't be reference variables, just because python lacks the "normal" assignment from simula. It is possible to write simula programs that almost exclusively use reference assignments. Limiting yourself like that, would also not allow you to do /proper/ referencing. It seems weird to refuse to call something a /proper/ reference, while what is missing is not a reference assignment but a mutating assignment. -- Antoon Pardon.
Back to comp.lang.python | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread
I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Sayth Renshaw <flebber.crue@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 07:20 -0700
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Paul Rudin <paul.nospam@rudin.co.uk> - 2016-06-03 15:34 +0100
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Sayth Renshaw <flebber.crue@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 08:04 -0700
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 09:35 -0600
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Sayth Renshaw <flebber.crue@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 08:50 -0700
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Michael Selik <michael.selik@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 16:04 +0000
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Sayth Renshaw <flebber.crue@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 16:06 -0700
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-04 12:31 +1000
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Christopher Reimer <christopher_reimer@icloud.com> - 2016-06-03 19:50 -0700
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-04 19:12 +1000
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Matt Wheeler <m@funkyhat.org> - 2016-06-03 15:54 +0000
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-04 20:17 -0700
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-05 16:37 +1000
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-05 11:01 +0300
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-06-05 13:53 -0400
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-05 22:20 +0300
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-06-05 17:16 -0400
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-06 11:13 +0300
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-06-06 13:08 +1200
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-05 18:28 -0700
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-06-05 13:42 -0400
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-05 22:38 +0300
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-06 13:52 +1000
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-06-06 00:08 -0400
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-07 01:42 +1000
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-06-07 17:42 +1200
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-07 20:18 +1000
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-06-07 14:32 +0200
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-08 02:03 +1000
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-06-08 10:08 +0200
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-06-07 11:33 -0400
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-06-08 09:53 +0200
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-08 18:47 +1000
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-06-08 11:41 +0200
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-08 11:33 +0100
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-06-08 13:01 +0200
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-08 13:34 +0100
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-06-08 16:18 +0200
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-08 19:37 +0300
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-08 19:49 -0700
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-06-09 09:30 +0200
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-09 12:19 +0300
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-06-09 12:19 +0200
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-09 16:13 +0300
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? lists@juliensalort.org (Julien Salort) - 2016-06-09 13:46 +0200
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-06-09 14:35 +0200
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Paul Rudin <paul.nospam@rudin.co.uk> - 2016-06-09 11:00 +0100
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-09 15:56 +0300
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Paul Rudin <paul.nospam@rudin.co.uk> - 2016-06-09 15:09 +0100
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-09 18:14 +0300
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Paul Rudin <paul.nospam@rudin.co.uk> - 2016-06-09 17:22 +0100
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Paul Rudin <paul.nospam@rudin.co.uk> - 2016-06-09 17:48 +0100
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-09 22:35 +0300
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Jussi Piitulainen <jussi.piitulainen@helsinki.fi> - 2016-06-10 08:31 +0300
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-06-09 14:36 -0400
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-08 18:29 +0100
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-06-09 09:50 +0200
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-09 10:10 +0100
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-06-09 11:55 +0200
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-09 11:48 +0100
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-06-09 13:08 +0200
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-09 13:25 +0100
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-06-09 14:48 +0200
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-06-08 05:36 -0700
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-09 17:36 +1000
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-06-09 11:46 +0200
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-09 13:03 +0300
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-09 11:42 +0100
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-09 11:53 +0100
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Jussi Piitulainen <jussi.piitulainen@helsinki.fi> - 2016-06-09 13:56 +0300
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-06-09 13:19 +0200
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-09 13:17 +0100
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-06-09 14:59 +0200
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-06-06 18:37 +1200
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-07 02:19 +1000
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-06-06 12:57 -0400
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-06-07 04:59 +1000
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-06-06 17:13 -0400
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-07 00:47 +0300
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-06-07 19:03 +1200
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-07 10:56 +0300
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Jussi Piitulainen <jussi.piitulainen@helsinki.fi> - 2016-06-07 11:41 +0300
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-07 11:49 +0100
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-06-07 11:14 -0400
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-06-08 17:59 +1200
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-06-07 18:33 +1200
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-06-07 16:55 +1000
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-06 22:55 +0100
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2016-06-07 18:20 +1200
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2016-06-06 11:23 +0200
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2016-06-06 13:10 +0300
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-06-06 21:57 +1000
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-06 13:35 +0100
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> - 2016-06-05 18:25 -0700
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Peter Pearson <pkpearson@nowhere.invalid> - 2016-06-03 16:05 +0000
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Sayth Renshaw <flebber.crue@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 16:09 -0700
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? cs@zip.com.au - 2016-06-06 08:41 +1000
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Nagy László Zsolt <gandalf@shopzeus.com> - 2016-06-03 18:11 +0200
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Sayth Renshaw <flebber.crue@gmail.com> - 2016-06-03 16:11 -0700
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2016-06-03 22:12 -0400
Re: I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp? jfine2358@gmail.com - 2016-06-06 07:32 -0700
csiph-web