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Re: should "self" be changed?

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Date Wed, 27 May 2015 16:32:48 +1000
Subject Re: should "self" be changed?
From Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
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On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Wednesday 27 May 2015 06:45, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>
>> Apart from breaking all the tools that rely on "self" being spelt "self"
>> this looks like an excellent idea.
>
> Tools which rely on self being spelled "self" are already broken. It's a
> convention, nothing more, and there are various good reasons for breaking
> the convention:
>
> - metaclasses
> - classmethods
> - custom descriptors
> - nested classes

If it truly relies on it, yes. But if I see a function that has "self"
as its first parameter, I'm going to read it as a (probable) method
rather than a stand-alone function, and it wouldn't surprise me if
introspection and/or source code parsing made the same assumption.
It's as strong a convention as "don't touch the ones that begin with
an underscore", which is broken by the namedtuple due to namespacing
requirements, but otherwise is fairly dependable (eg if tab completion
skipped the underscore attributes, it'd be a bit less useful on
namedtuples, but probably more practical overall). Using some other
name in place of "self" should definitely remain *possible*, but not
commonly done.

ChrisA

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Thread

should "self" be changed? zipher <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2015-05-26 09:37 -0700
  Re: should "self" be changed? Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-05-26 18:57 +0200
    Re: should "self" be changed? zipher <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2015-05-26 20:01 -0700
    Re: should "self" be changed? zipher <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2015-05-26 20:15 -0700
  Re: should "self" be changed? Laurent Pointal <laurent.pointal@free.fr> - 2015-05-26 18:59 +0200
  Re: should "self" be changed? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-05-26 18:28 +0100
    Re: should "self" be changed? zipher <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2015-05-26 19:48 -0700
      Re: should "self" be changed? zipher <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2015-05-26 20:17 -0700
        Re: should "self" be changed? Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2015-05-27 14:39 +1000
          Re: should "self" be changed? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-05-27 15:47 +1000
            Re: should "self" be changed? Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2015-05-27 21:29 +1000
              Re: should "self" be changed? zipher <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2015-05-27 05:40 -0700
                Re: should "self" be changed? Todd <toddrjen@gmail.com> - 2015-05-27 15:00 +0200
                Re: should "self" be changed? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2015-05-27 14:19 +0000
                Re: should "self" be changed? zipher <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2015-05-30 16:18 -0700
            Re: should "self" be changed? zipher <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2015-05-30 16:10 -0700
          Re: should "self" be changed? zipher <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2015-05-30 16:13 -0700
  Re: should "self" be changed? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-27 03:31 +1000
  Re: should "self" be changed? random832@fastmail.us - 2015-05-26 14:11 -0400
  Re: should "self" be changed? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-05-26 22:46 +0300
    Re: should "self" be changed? Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2015-05-26 13:04 -0700
      Re: should "self" be changed? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-05-26 23:36 +0300
        Re: should "self" be changed? Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2015-05-28 17:07 +0300
          Re: should "self" be changed? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-05-28 18:01 +0300
            Re: should "self" be changed? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-05-28 09:40 -0600
              Re: should "self" be changed? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-05-28 19:59 +0300
                Re: should "self" be changed? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-29 03:06 +1000
                Re: should "self" be changed? zipher <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2015-05-30 16:39 -0700
            Re: should "self" be changed? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-05-29 12:00 +1000
              Re: should "self" be changed? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-05-29 15:46 +1000
              Re: should "self" be changed? Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-06-03 02:50 +1000
                Re: should "self" be changed? "Dr. BigCock" <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2015-06-02 10:16 -0700
                Re: should "self" be changed? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-06-02 20:19 +0300
                Re: should "self" be changed? "Dr. Bigcock" <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2015-06-02 11:02 -0700
                Re: should "self" be changed? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-06-02 19:39 -0600
                Re: should "self" be changed? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-06-03 17:05 +1000
    Re: should "self" be changed? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-05-27 15:20 +1000
  Re: should "self" be changed? garabik-news-2005-05@kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk - 2015-05-26 20:26 +0000
    Re: should "self" be changed? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-05-26 21:45 +0100
      Re: should "self" be changed? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-05-27 15:23 +1000
        Re: should "self" be changed? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-27 16:32 +1000
          Re: should "self" be changed? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-05-27 10:39 +0300
            Re: should "self" be changed? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-05-27 18:20 +1000
            Re: should "self" be changed? zipher <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2015-05-30 16:15 -0700
        Re: should "self" be changed? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2015-05-27 17:59 -0400
    Re: should "self" be changed? Vito De Tullio <vito.detullio@gmail.com> - 2015-05-26 23:17 +0200
    Re: should "self" be changed? Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2015-05-26 16:10 -0500
  Re: should "self" be changed? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-05-27 15:17 +1000

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