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Re: the Gravity of Python 2

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Date Thu, 09 Jan 2014 07:56:20 -0800
From Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us>
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Subject Re: the Gravity of Python 2
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On 01/09/2014 06:57 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 1:14 AM, Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> wrote:
>>
>
> Thanks for this collection! Now we can discuss.

[snip]

>> Datetimes are self-describing.  If I have a datetime or a timedelta, I
>> know what I've got.  I've written more than one bug where I assumed a
>> number somebody handed me was in seconds but it turned out to be in ms.
>> That can never happen with a timedelta.  We do a lot of stuff in
>> javascript, where times are ms, so this is a common problem for us.
>
> Sure. Though that's no different from other cases where you need
> out-of-band information to understand something, as we've just been
> discussing in the threads about text handling - if you have a puddle
> of bytes, you can't decode them to text without knowing what the
> encoding is. [1] If your data's coming from JS, it won't be a
> timedelta, it'll be a number; at some point you have to turn that into
> a timedelta object, so you still have the same problem.

Yup, and you do at the boundary instead of having a float wandering through your code with an easily forgotten meta-data 
type.


> So what I'm seeing here is that the direct use of a time_t will cover
> everything in an ugly way, but that a class wrapping it up could fix
> that. And fundamentally, the only problem with datetime (which, for
> the most part, is exactly that wrapper) is that it's unobvious how to
> get a simple UTC timestamp.

It has at least one other problem:  bool(midnight) == False.

--
~Ethan~


> [1] Yes, I said "puddle of bytes". What would you call it? Am
> interested to hear!

I think that's a perfect name!  :)

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Thread

Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-07 11:19 +1100
  Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Martijn Faassen <faassen@startifact.com> - 2014-01-07 13:54 +0100
    Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Martijn Faassen <faassen@startifact.com> - 2014-01-07 17:07 +0100
      Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Martijn Faassen <faassen@startifact.com> - 2014-01-07 17:42 +0100
        Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-08 04:00 +1100
          Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Martijn Faassen <faassen@startifact.com> - 2014-01-08 13:36 +0100
            Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-08 23:46 +1100
              Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Martijn Faassen <faassen@startifact.com> - 2014-01-08 16:08 +0100
            Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-01-09 00:01 +1100
              Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-08 14:08 +0000
              Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Martijn Faassen <faassen@startifact.com> - 2014-01-08 16:22 +0100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 02:39 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-08 15:50 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-01-09 08:55 +1100
            Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-08 09:15 -0500
              Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-08 14:30 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Martijn Faassen <faassen@startifact.com> - 2014-01-08 16:26 +0100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> - 2014-01-08 18:42 -0500
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-08 20:27 -0500
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 12:47 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-08 21:25 -0500
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 14:17 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-08 22:35 -0500
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 15:03 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-08 23:29 -0500
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 15:34 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 15:38 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-01-08 21:31 -0800
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 17:34 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-01-09 17:57 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 18:56 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-09 09:14 -0500
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-10 01:57 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-09 08:21 -0800
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-09 16:30 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-09 09:07 -0800
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-09 18:20 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-01-09 10:29 -0800
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Tim Golden <mail@timgolden.me.uk> - 2014-01-09 16:41 +0000
                RE: the Gravity of Python 2 Nick Cash <nick.cash@npcinternational.com> - 2014-01-09 16:42 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-09 16:50 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-10 07:35 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-09 12:54 -0800
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-10 08:12 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2014-01-09 15:01 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-10 02:17 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-01-09 07:56 -0800
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Kushal Kumaran <kushal.kumaran@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 11:36 +0530
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-09 08:53 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-01-09 20:03 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Kushal Kumaran <kushal.kumaran@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 14:51 +0530
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Piet van Oostrum <piet@vanoostrum.org> - 2014-01-09 12:26 +0100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-09 09:51 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-01-10 00:35 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-09 09:32 -0500
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-01-09 14:34 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-08 22:44 -0500
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 14:42 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Piet van Oostrum <piet@vanoostrum.org> - 2014-01-09 15:06 +0100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-10 01:34 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-09 09:44 -0500
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Piet van Oostrum <piet@vanoostrum.org> - 2014-01-09 17:51 +0100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-10 07:43 +1100
                Time zones and why they change so damned often (was: the Gravity of Python 2) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-01-09 14:54 +1100
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often (was: the Gravity of Python 2) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 15:14 +1100
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often (was: the Gravity of Python 2) Peter Pearson <ppearson@nowhere.invalid> - 2014-01-10 18:22 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-01-10 18:48 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-10 18:53 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-10 19:55 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-01-10 19:45 -0500
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2014-01-10 21:53 -0500
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often (was: the Gravity of Python 2) Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-01-10 19:43 -0500
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often (was: the Gravity of Python 2) Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-10 19:49 -0500
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-09 07:10 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-09 07:17 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-01-09 12:07 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2014-01-10 07:31 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-01-10 09:04 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2014-01-11 07:52 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-01-11 11:10 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-01-11 11:14 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-01-11 11:14 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often (was: the Gravity
 of Python 2) Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2014-01-09 10:34 -0500
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-01-08 17:52 -0800
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 13:09 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-09 08:42 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-01-09 08:01 -0800
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-09 18:18 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-01-09 10:33 -0800
              Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Pedro Larroy <pedro.larroy.lists@gmail.com> - 2014-01-08 15:45 +0100
              Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 01:50 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-08 15:06 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 02:31 +1100
              Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-01-08 15:45 -0500
            Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-08 14:15 +0000

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