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Groups > comp.lang.python > #63561

Re: the Gravity of Python 2

From Roy Smith <roy@panix.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Subject Re: the Gravity of Python 2
Date 2014-01-08 22:44 -0500
Organization PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Message-ID <roy-D41A36.22445008012014@news.panix.com> (permalink)
References (10 earlier) <roy-B40DB1.20273008012014@news.panix.com> <mailman.5222.1389232077.18130.python-list@python.org> <roy-956F29.21255508012014@news.panix.com> <CAPTjJmpX4b=LV42g5S6dvuqx2GDqAzf-QYSDRt8jjGP9mi1YVQ@mail.gmail.com> <mailman.5227.1389238511.18130.python-list@python.org>

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In article <mailman.5227.1389238511.18130.python-list@python.org>,
 Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> wrote:

> Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> writes:
> 
> > On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 1:25 PM, Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> wrote:
> > > Because it's easy to get a naive one. You call datetime.utcnow(). If
> > > utcnow() returned an aware datetime, that's probably what we would
> > > be using. Why didn't utcnow() just return an aware datetime to begin
> > > with?
> […]
> 
> > But even so, the problem is not "why can't naive timestamps do
> > everything I want". The problem is "why is it so hard to get an aware
> > timestamp for the current instant". And if you ask *that* question,
> > then there's likely to be an answer.
> 
> I think Roy's question hits close to a related problem: that the
> standard library makes it easy to do a sub-optimal thing, and the
> behaviour we all agree is best is not the default.
> 
> So, two questions are raised. One is what you've correctly identified:
> “Why is it so hard to get an aware timestamp for the current instant?”
> The short answer is: because doing that requires a lookup into a
> frequently-updated database, which (because it's so frequently updated)
> isn't installed along with Python.

We have a call in the standard library named utcnow().  That shouldn't 
require a lookup in a database.  "I'm sorry, which value of zero did you 
want?"

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Thread

Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-07 11:19 +1100
  Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Martijn Faassen <faassen@startifact.com> - 2014-01-07 13:54 +0100
    Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Martijn Faassen <faassen@startifact.com> - 2014-01-07 17:07 +0100
      Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Martijn Faassen <faassen@startifact.com> - 2014-01-07 17:42 +0100
        Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-08 04:00 +1100
          Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Martijn Faassen <faassen@startifact.com> - 2014-01-08 13:36 +0100
            Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-08 23:46 +1100
              Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Martijn Faassen <faassen@startifact.com> - 2014-01-08 16:08 +0100
            Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-01-09 00:01 +1100
              Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-08 14:08 +0000
              Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Martijn Faassen <faassen@startifact.com> - 2014-01-08 16:22 +0100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 02:39 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-08 15:50 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-01-09 08:55 +1100
            Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-08 09:15 -0500
              Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-08 14:30 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Martijn Faassen <faassen@startifact.com> - 2014-01-08 16:26 +0100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> - 2014-01-08 18:42 -0500
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-08 20:27 -0500
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 12:47 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-08 21:25 -0500
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 14:17 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-08 22:35 -0500
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 15:03 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-08 23:29 -0500
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 15:34 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 15:38 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-01-08 21:31 -0800
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 17:34 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-01-09 17:57 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 18:56 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-09 09:14 -0500
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-10 01:57 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-09 08:21 -0800
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-09 16:30 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-09 09:07 -0800
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-09 18:20 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-01-09 10:29 -0800
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Tim Golden <mail@timgolden.me.uk> - 2014-01-09 16:41 +0000
                RE: the Gravity of Python 2 Nick Cash <nick.cash@npcinternational.com> - 2014-01-09 16:42 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-09 16:50 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-10 07:35 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-09 12:54 -0800
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-10 08:12 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2014-01-09 15:01 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-10 02:17 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-01-09 07:56 -0800
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Kushal Kumaran <kushal.kumaran@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 11:36 +0530
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-09 08:53 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-01-09 20:03 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Kushal Kumaran <kushal.kumaran@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 14:51 +0530
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Piet van Oostrum <piet@vanoostrum.org> - 2014-01-09 12:26 +0100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-09 09:51 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-01-10 00:35 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-09 09:32 -0500
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-01-09 14:34 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-08 22:44 -0500
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 14:42 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Piet van Oostrum <piet@vanoostrum.org> - 2014-01-09 15:06 +0100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-10 01:34 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-09 09:44 -0500
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Piet van Oostrum <piet@vanoostrum.org> - 2014-01-09 17:51 +0100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-10 07:43 +1100
                Time zones and why they change so damned often (was: the Gravity of Python 2) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-01-09 14:54 +1100
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often (was: the Gravity of Python 2) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 15:14 +1100
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often (was: the Gravity of Python 2) Peter Pearson <ppearson@nowhere.invalid> - 2014-01-10 18:22 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-01-10 18:48 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-10 18:53 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-10 19:55 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-01-10 19:45 -0500
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2014-01-10 21:53 -0500
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often (was: the Gravity of Python 2) Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-01-10 19:43 -0500
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often (was: the Gravity of Python 2) Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-10 19:49 -0500
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-09 07:10 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-09 07:17 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-01-09 12:07 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2014-01-10 07:31 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-01-10 09:04 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2014-01-11 07:52 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-01-11 11:10 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-01-11 11:14 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-01-11 11:14 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often (was: the Gravity
 of Python 2) Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2014-01-09 10:34 -0500
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-01-08 17:52 -0800
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 13:09 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-09 08:42 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-01-09 08:01 -0800
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-09 18:18 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-01-09 10:33 -0800
              Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Pedro Larroy <pedro.larroy.lists@gmail.com> - 2014-01-08 15:45 +0100
              Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 01:50 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-08 15:06 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 02:31 +1100
              Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-01-08 15:45 -0500
            Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-08 14:15 +0000

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