Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.python > #63519

Re: the Gravity of Python 2

Path csiph.com!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder3.hal-mli.net!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder1.hal-mli.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed1.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail
Return-Path <python-python-list@m.gmane.org>
X-Original-To python-list@python.org
Delivered-To python-list@mail.python.org
X-Spam-Status OK 0.007
X-Spam-Evidence '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'pypy': 0.07; 'alternatives': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'worse': 0.09; 'contribute': 0.11; 'python': 0.11; 'jan': 0.12; '2.7': 0.14; 'anyway': 0.14; "'from": 0.16; '(via': 0.16; '9:15': 0.16; '__future__': 0.16; 'ideal.': 0.16; 'limiting': 0.16; 'prohibit': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'reedy': 0.16; 'roy': 0.16; 'situation.': 0.16; 'unicode.': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'module': 0.19; 'numerical': 0.19; 'code,': 0.22; 'import': 0.22; 'install': 0.23; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.23; '2.x': 0.24; 'unicode': 0.24; 'versions': 0.24; 'question': 0.24; "i've": 0.25; 'world,': 0.26; 'header:X-Complaints-To:1': 0.27; 'header:In- Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'idea': 0.28; 'am,': 0.29; "i'm": 0.30; '(which': 0.31; 'code': 0.31; "skip:' 10": 0.31; '3.x': 0.31; 'forces': 0.31; 'idea,': 0.31; 'allows': 0.31; 'option': 0.32; 'another': 0.32; 'community': 0.33; 'everyone': 0.33; 'subject:the': 0.34; 'could': 0.34; 'basic': 0.35; "can't": 0.35; 'good.': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'doing': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'effort': 0.37; 'half': 0.37; 'application': 0.37; 'two': 0.37; 'somebody': 0.38; 'needed': 0.38; 'to:addr:python- list': 0.38; 'fact': 0.38; 'little': 0.38; 'moving': 0.39; 'realize': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'unable': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'users': 0.40; 'release': 0.40; 'new': 0.61; 'received:173': 0.61; 'more': 0.64; 'within': 0.65; 'worth': 0.66; 'between': 0.67; 'smith': 0.68; 'stated': 0.69; '2.7.': 0.84; '2.8': 0.84; 'camps': 0.84; 'choices:': 0.84; 'dilemma': 0.84; 'doubts': 0.84; 'increasingly': 0.84; 'prolong': 0.84; 'received:fios.verizon.net': 0.84; 'absolutely': 0.87; 'investing': 0.91; 'imagine': 0.93
X-Injected-Via-Gmane http://gmane.org/
To python-list@python.org
From Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu>
Subject Re: the Gravity of Python 2
Date Wed, 08 Jan 2014 15:45:16 -0500
References <laf00q$10k$1@ger.gmane.org> <mailman.5098.1389053970.18130.python-list@python.org> <78d91$52cbf8e9$541826b9$29485@cache1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl> <4b702$52cc262e$541826b9$22985@cache80.multikabel.net> <4cbf$52cc2e82$541826b9$11761@cache70.multikabel.net> <mailman.5141.1389114029.18130.python-list@python.org> <686$52cd4640$541826b9$21896@cache1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl> <roy-C787B2.09153508012014@news.panix.com>
Mime-Version 1.0
Content-Type text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding 7bit
X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host pool-173-75-254-207.phlapa.fios.verizon.net
User-Agent Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0
In-Reply-To <roy-C787B2.09153508012014@news.panix.com>
X-BeenThere python-list@python.org
X-Mailman-Version 2.1.15
Precedence list
List-Id General discussion list for the Python programming language <python-list.python.org>
List-Unsubscribe <https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/>
List-Post <mailto:python-list@python.org>
List-Help <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=subscribe>
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Message-ID <mailman.5199.1389213938.18130.python-list@python.org> (permalink)
Lines 45
NNTP-Posting-Host 2001:888:2000:d::a6
X-Trace 1389213938 news.xs4all.nl 2960 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:58971
X-Complaints-To abuse@xs4all.nl
Xref csiph.com comp.lang.python:63519

Show key headers only | View raw

On 1/8/2014 9:15 AM, Roy Smith wrote:
> As somebody who is still firmly in the 2.x world, I'm worried about the
> idea of a 2.x fork.  While I have my doubts that 3.x was a good idea,
> the fact is, it's here.  Having the community fractured between the two
> camps is not good.  Let's say I'm somebody who wants to contribute some
> OSS.  I have three basic choices:
>
> 1) I can make it 3.x only.  Now, (nominally) half of the python
> community is unable to realize value from my contribution.
>
> 2) I can make it 2.x only.  Same thing in reverse.
>
> 3) I can make it work on both 2.x and 3.x, which means I'm investing
> more effort than I had to if it were single platform.
>
> Any of those alternatives is worse than ideal.  Forking 2.x to create an
> unofficial 2.8 release would just prolong the situation.  As I've stated
> before, I don't see any urgency in moving to 3.x, and don't imagine
> doing there for another couple of years, but I absolutely can't imagine
> moving to a 2.8 fork.

This question cannot be answered generically.

I think it worth noting that in part this is the same dilemma as 'how 
many versions to support' within each of 2.x and 3.x. Limiting code to 
3.3+ allows use of the new asyncio module (via Pypy for 3.3) and the new 
FSR unicode. Use of asyncio or FSR features* also forces the choice you 
give above as neither can be backported to 2.7.

* IE, support of all of unicode on all Python systems with 
straightforward code, without contortions.

If I were giving away 'stand-alone' application code whose dependencies 
were available on both 2.7 and 3.x+, I would write for 3.x+ on the basis 
that everyone could install 3.x, and that new users are increasingly 
likely to only have 3.x only. I would have little sympathy for 
organizations that prohibit 3.x -- unless they were to pay me to.

For numerical or combinatorial code, adding 'from __future__ import 
division' (which I think one should do anyway for 2.x code) might be the 
only extra work needed for option 3).

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy

Back to comp.lang.python | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-07 11:19 +1100
  Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Martijn Faassen <faassen@startifact.com> - 2014-01-07 13:54 +0100
    Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Martijn Faassen <faassen@startifact.com> - 2014-01-07 17:07 +0100
      Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Martijn Faassen <faassen@startifact.com> - 2014-01-07 17:42 +0100
        Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-08 04:00 +1100
          Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Martijn Faassen <faassen@startifact.com> - 2014-01-08 13:36 +0100
            Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-08 23:46 +1100
              Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Martijn Faassen <faassen@startifact.com> - 2014-01-08 16:08 +0100
            Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-01-09 00:01 +1100
              Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-08 14:08 +0000
              Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Martijn Faassen <faassen@startifact.com> - 2014-01-08 16:22 +0100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 02:39 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-08 15:50 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-01-09 08:55 +1100
            Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-08 09:15 -0500
              Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-08 14:30 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Martijn Faassen <faassen@startifact.com> - 2014-01-08 16:26 +0100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> - 2014-01-08 18:42 -0500
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-08 20:27 -0500
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 12:47 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-08 21:25 -0500
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 14:17 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-08 22:35 -0500
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 15:03 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-08 23:29 -0500
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 15:34 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 15:38 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-01-08 21:31 -0800
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 17:34 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-01-09 17:57 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 18:56 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-09 09:14 -0500
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-10 01:57 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-09 08:21 -0800
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-09 16:30 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-09 09:07 -0800
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-09 18:20 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-01-09 10:29 -0800
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Tim Golden <mail@timgolden.me.uk> - 2014-01-09 16:41 +0000
                RE: the Gravity of Python 2 Nick Cash <nick.cash@npcinternational.com> - 2014-01-09 16:42 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-09 16:50 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-10 07:35 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-09 12:54 -0800
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-10 08:12 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2014-01-09 15:01 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-10 02:17 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-01-09 07:56 -0800
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Kushal Kumaran <kushal.kumaran@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 11:36 +0530
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-09 08:53 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-01-09 20:03 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Kushal Kumaran <kushal.kumaran@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 14:51 +0530
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Piet van Oostrum <piet@vanoostrum.org> - 2014-01-09 12:26 +0100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-09 09:51 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-01-10 00:35 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-09 09:32 -0500
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-01-09 14:34 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-08 22:44 -0500
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 14:42 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Piet van Oostrum <piet@vanoostrum.org> - 2014-01-09 15:06 +0100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-10 01:34 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-09 09:44 -0500
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Piet van Oostrum <piet@vanoostrum.org> - 2014-01-09 17:51 +0100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-10 07:43 +1100
                Time zones and why they change so damned often (was: the Gravity of Python 2) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-01-09 14:54 +1100
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often (was: the Gravity of Python 2) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 15:14 +1100
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often (was: the Gravity of Python 2) Peter Pearson <ppearson@nowhere.invalid> - 2014-01-10 18:22 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-01-10 18:48 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-10 18:53 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-10 19:55 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-01-10 19:45 -0500
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2014-01-10 21:53 -0500
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often (was: the Gravity of Python 2) Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-01-10 19:43 -0500
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often (was: the Gravity of Python 2) Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-10 19:49 -0500
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-09 07:10 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-09 07:17 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-01-09 12:07 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2014-01-10 07:31 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-01-10 09:04 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2014-01-11 07:52 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-01-11 11:10 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-01-11 11:14 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-01-11 11:14 +0000
                Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often (was: the Gravity
 of Python 2) Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2014-01-09 10:34 -0500
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-01-08 17:52 -0800
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 13:09 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-09 08:42 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-01-09 08:01 -0800
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-09 18:18 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-01-09 10:33 -0800
              Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Pedro Larroy <pedro.larroy.lists@gmail.com> - 2014-01-08 15:45 +0100
              Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 01:50 +1100
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-08 15:06 +0000
                Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-09 02:31 +1100
              Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-01-08 15:45 -0500
            Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-08 14:15 +0000

csiph-web