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Re: Blog "about python 3"

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From Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com>
Subject Re: Blog "about python 3"
Date Sat, 04 Jan 2014 12:51:32 -0500
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On 1/4/14 9:17 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 12:55 AM, Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> wrote:
>> In article <mailman.4882.1388808283.18130.python-list@python.org>,
>>   Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Surely everybody prefers fast but incorrect code in
>>> preference to something that is correct but slow?
>>
>> I realize I'm taking this statement out of context, but yes, sometimes
>> fast is more important than correct.  Sometimes the other way around.
>
> More usually, it's sometimes better to be really fast and mostly
> correct than really really slow and entirely correct. That's why we
> use IEEE floating point instead of Decimal most of the time. Though
> I'm glad that Python 3 now deems the default int type to be capable of
> representing arbitrary integers (instead of dropping out to a separate
> long type as Py2 did), I think it's possibly worth optimizing small
> integers to machine words - but mainly, the int type focuses on
> correctness above performance, because the cost is low compared to the
> benefit. With float, the cost of arbitrary precision is extremely
> high, and the benefit much lower.
>
> With Unicode, the cost of perfect support is normally seen to be a
> doubling of internal memory usage (UTF-16 vs UCS-4). Pike and Python
> decided that the cost could, instead, be a tiny measure of complexity
> and actually *less* memory usage (compared to UTF-16, when lots of
> identifiers are ASCII). It's a system that works only when strings are
> immutable, but works beautifully there. Fortunately Pike doesn't have
> any, and Python has only one, idiot like jmf who completely
> misunderstands what's going on and uses microbenchmarks to prove
> obscure points... and then uses nonsense to try to prove... uhh...
> actually I'm not even sure what, sometimes. I wouldn't dare try to
> read his posts except that my mind's already in a rather broken state,
> as a combination of programming and Alice in Wonderland.
>
> ChrisA
>

I really wish we could discuss these things without baiting trolls.

-- 
Ned Batchelder, http://nedbatchelder.com

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Thread

Blog "about python 3" Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-30 19:41 +0000
  Re: Blog "about python 3" Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-12-30 20:49 +0000
    Re: Blog "about python 3" Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-30 21:29 +0000
    Re: Blog "about python 3" Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-12-30 14:38 -0800
    Re: Blog "about python 3" Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-31 12:09 +1100
    Re: Blog "about python 3" Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-31 04:38 +0000
    Re: Blog "about python 3" Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-31 15:44 +1100
    Re: Blog "about python 3" Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-12-30 20:33 -0800
    Re: Blog "about python 3" Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-31 04:59 +0000
    Re: Blog "about python 3" Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-31 08:22 +0000
      Re: Blog "about python 3" Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-12-31 20:53 +1100
        Re: Blog "about python 3" Antoine Pitrou <solipsis@pitrou.net> - 2013-12-31 14:13 +0000
          Re: Blog "about python 3" Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-12-31 10:41 -0500
            Re: Blog "about python 3" Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-01 02:54 +1100
            Re: Blog "about python 3" Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-31 15:55 +0000
            Re: Blog "about python 3" Robin Becker <robin@reportlab.com> - 2014-01-02 17:36 +0000
              Re: Blog "about python 3" Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-01-03 15:49 +1100
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-01-03 04:01 -0500
                Re: Blog "about python 3" wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-01-03 02:10 -0800
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-03 21:24 +1100
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-01-03 08:56 -0800
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Robin Becker <robin@reportlab.com> - 2014-01-03 12:28 +0000
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-03 09:57 -0500
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-04 02:32 +1100
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-01-03 17:00 -0500
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-04 04:04 +0000
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-04 08:55 -0500
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-05 01:17 +1100
                Re: Blog "about python 3" wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-01-04 11:10 -0800
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-01-04 17:46 -0500
                Re: Blog "about python 3" wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-01-05 06:23 -0800
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2014-01-05 10:20 -0500
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-01-05 17:14 -0500
                Re: Blog "about python 3" wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-01-07 05:34 -0800
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-01-07 09:54 -0500
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2014-01-08 09:38 +1100
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-01-07 19:02 -0500
                Re: Blog "about python 3" wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-01-08 01:59 -0800
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-01-08 14:26 -0500
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-08 20:04 +0000
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-01-05 17:48 -0500
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-05 10:28 +1100
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2014-01-04 12:51 -0500
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-01-05 13:27 +1100
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-05 13:32 +1100
                Re: Blog "about python 3" MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-01-05 02:41 +0000
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-04 22:20 -0500
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-01-05 10:12 +0530
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-05 00:11 -0500
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-01-05 17:28 +1100
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-01-05 14:05 -0500
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-05 15:01 +1100
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-05 11:34 -0500
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-06 03:51 +1100
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-05 12:09 -0500
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-01-06 11:42 +1100
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-01-05 17:56 -0500
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-06 10:59 +1100
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-01-06 12:23 +1100
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-06 12:54 +1100
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-06 05:53 +0000
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2014-01-05 00:00 -0800
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-01-05 23:28 +1100
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-05 23:48 +1100
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-01-05 11:10 -0500
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-01-05 13:51 -0500
            Re: Blog "about python 3" David Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2014-01-02 13:25 -0500
            Re: Blog "about python 3" Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-01-02 13:37 -0500
            Re: Blog "about python 3" Antoine Pitrou <solipsis@pitrou.net> - 2014-01-02 23:57 +0000
            Re: Blog "about python 3" Robin Becker <robin@reportlab.com> - 2014-01-03 10:32 +0000
            Re: Blog "about python 3" Robin Becker <robin@reportlab.com> - 2014-01-03 11:14 +0000
              Re: Blog "about python 3" wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-01-04 05:52 -0800
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-01-05 13:41 +1100
                Re: Blog "about python 3" Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-01-05 13:54 +1100
                Re: Blog "about python 3" wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-01-05 02:39 -0800
            Re: Blog "about python 3" Robin Becker <robin@reportlab.com> - 2014-01-03 11:37 +0000
            Re: Blog "about python 3" Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-04 07:30 +0000
        Re: Blog "about python 3" Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2014-01-05 13:14 +0100
          Re: Blog "about python 3" Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2014-01-05 14:55 +0100
        Re: Blog "about python 3" Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-05 13:10 +0000
    Re: Blog "about python 3" Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-12-31 20:04 +1100
    Re: Blog "about python 3" Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2013-12-30 20:25 -0800

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