Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.python > #61894

Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language

Path csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder4.news.weretis.net!ecngs!feeder2.ecngs.de!novso.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed4.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail
Return-Path <python-python-list@m.gmane.org>
X-Original-To python-list@python.org
Delivered-To python-list@mail.python.org
X-Spam-Status OK 0.002
X-Spam-Evidence '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'from:addr:yahoo.co.uk': 0.04; 'say,': 0.05; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'here?': 0.09; 'lawrence': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'spreading': 0.09; 'subject:language': 0.09; '~ethan~': 0.09; 'python': 0.11; 'language.': 0.14; 'broken.': 0.16; 'iirc': 0.16; 'mark,': 0.16; 'obsessed': 0.16; 'quit.': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'stages': 0.16; 'subject: \n ': 0.16; 'subject:programming': 0.16; 'throw': 0.16; 'language': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'trying': 0.19; 'later': 0.20; 'seems': 0.21; '>>>': 0.22; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.23; '15,': 0.26; 'subject:/': 0.26; 'header:X-Complaints-To:1': 0.27; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'compared': 0.30; 'dec': 0.30; '>>>>': 0.31; "d'aprano": 0.31; 'steven': 0.31; "we're": 0.32; 'fri,': 0.33; 'problem': 0.35; 'really': 0.36; 'edge': 0.36; 'himself': 0.36; 'performance': 0.37; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'does': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'even': 0.60; 'august': 0.61; 'identify': 0.61; 'simply': 0.61; 'first': 0.61; 'real': 0.63; 'our': 0.64; 'become': 0.64; 'world': 0.66; 'boxer': 0.84; 'ethan': 0.84; 'furman': 0.84; 'maths': 0.84; 'rubbish': 0.84; 'trainer': 0.84; 'stood': 0.93; 'fight': 0.97; '2013': 0.98
X-Injected-Via-Gmane http://gmane.org/
To python-list@python.org
From Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language
Date Sat, 14 Dec 2013 13:21:28 +0000
References <CAHVvXxS23g8dxO23pPTmXLo0z=QzJY_CjwMUtJcvAVfRhZa8bA@mail.gmail.com> <201312090824.25211.gheskett@wdtv.com> <52A78F6F.3060507@stoneleaf.us> <CABicbJKoN9fV48yskd5wqE79vsb5=nPGfwgOTCO+fCFMG7g8qw@mail.gmail.com> <mailman.3872.1386751441.18130.python-list@python.org> <d0aef6f2-9091-4f27-b378-8e24257d3983@googlegroups.com> <mailman.3882.1386758747.18130.python-list@python.org> <f62baa3e-d286-4f7b-b6db-71cafb0523d3@googlegroups.com> <mailman.4005.1386870936.18130.python-list@python.org> <5b62c6f8-fb92-48ef-a59a-6025b9b39994@googlegroups.com> <l8g2tk$3os$1@ger.gmane.org> <l8g44b$g2b$1@ger.gmane.org> <52AB9590.80505@stoneleaf.us> <mailman.4101.1386979119.18130.python-list@python.org> <52ac2c58$0$29992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Mime-Version 1.0
Content-Type text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding 7bit
X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host host-78-147-188-73.as13285.net
User-Agent Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0
In-Reply-To <52ac2c58$0$29992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
X-BeenThere python-list@python.org
X-Mailman-Version 2.1.15
Precedence list
List-Id General discussion list for the Python programming language <python-list.python.org>
List-Unsubscribe <https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/>
List-Post <mailto:python-list@python.org>
List-Help <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=subscribe>
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Message-ID <mailman.4112.1387027319.18130.python-list@python.org> (permalink)
Lines 39
NNTP-Posting-Host 2001:888:2000:d::a6
X-Trace 1387027319 news.xs4all.nl 2970 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:40313
X-Complaints-To abuse@xs4all.nl
Xref csiph.com comp.lang.python:61894

Show key headers only | View raw

On 14/12/2013 10:00, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 23:58:14 +0000, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>
>> On 13/12/2013 23:17, Ethan Furman wrote:
>>> On 12/13/2013 03:10 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Seems like we're now in the later stages of the 15, three minute
>>>> rounds.  The trainer won't throw in the towel, the referee won't stop
>>>> the fight and the boxer himself won't quit.  Is jmf actually trying to
>>>> get himself killed?
>>>
>>> His credibility with me has been long dead.  :(
>>>
>>> --
>>> ~Ethan~
>>
>> With me it never lived, we've simply had to put up with his FUD for 16
>> months.
>
> Mark, do you really mean to say that you were prejudiced against JMF
> before he even write a word here?
>
> Strange thing to say, since he did actually identify a real performance
> regression, even if he has since become obsessed with demonstrating that
> a micro-performance slowdown means that Python is mathematically and
> logically broken.
>

IIRC he first started spreading his rubbish sometime in August 2012, I 
make that around 16 months, what does your maths skills make it?  He 
also identified a problem in an edge case that stood out like a sore 
thumb when compared to real world cases.  Big deal.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask 
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence

Back to comp.lang.python | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-11 19:43 +1100
  Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-12-11 01:39 -0800
    Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-11 10:05 +0000
    Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-11 21:45 +1100
      Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-12-12 15:38 +1000
      Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-12-12 01:17 -0800
        Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-12 21:28 +1100
          Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-12-12 06:34 -0800
            Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-13 01:47 +1100
              Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-12-12 08:20 -0800
                Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-12-12 11:58 -0500
            Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-12 15:01 +0000
        Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-12-12 08:52 -0500
        Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-12 14:30 +0000
        Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-12-12 12:55 -0500
          Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-12-13 08:15 -0800
            Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-14 03:27 +1100
              Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-12-13 10:27 -0800
                Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-14 05:32 +1100
                Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-12-13 11:30 -0800
            Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-13 16:39 +0000
            Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-14 03:43 +1100
              Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-13 08:54 -0800
                Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-14 03:57 +1100
            Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-13 17:02 +0000
            Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-12-13 17:49 -0500
              Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-12-14 09:58 +0000
            Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-13 23:10 +0000
            Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-12-13 18:30 -0500
              Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-12-14 06:03 -0800
                Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-15 01:15 +1100
                Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-14 14:38 +0000
                CP65001 fails (was re: ...) Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-12-14 13:43 -0500
                Re: CP65001 fails (was re: ...) wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-12-14 12:48 -0800
                Re: CP65001 fails (was re: ...) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-14 21:05 +0000
                Re: CP65001 fails (was re: ...) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-12-14 22:51 +0000
                Re: CP65001 fails (was re: ...) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-14 23:32 +0000
                Re: CP65001 fails (was re: ...) rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-14 20:42 -0800
                Re: CP65001 fails (was re: ...) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-12-15 05:00 +0000
                Re: CP65001 fails (was re: ...) rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-14 21:24 -0800
                Re: CP65001 fails (was re: ...) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-15 15:48 +1100
                Re: CP65001 fails (was re: ...) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-15 14:25 +0000
                Re: CP65001 fails (was re: ...) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-12-15 02:39 +0000
                Re: CP65001 fails (was re: ...) Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-12-15 00:07 -0500
                Re: CP65001 fails (was re: ...) wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2013-12-15 00:26 -0800
            Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-14 10:38 +1100
            Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-12-13 15:17 -0800
            Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-13 23:58 +0000
              Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-12-14 10:00 +0000
                Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-14 13:21 +0000
    Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Steve Simmons <square.steve@gmail.com> - 2013-12-11 12:33 +0100
    Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-11 23:02 +1100
    Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Steve Simmons <square.steve@gmail.com> - 2013-12-11 13:30 +0100
  Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-12-11 11:17 +0000

csiph-web