Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder4.news.weretis.net!ecngs!feeder2.ecngs.de!novso.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed4.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.002 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'from:addr:yahoo.co.uk': 0.04; 'say,': 0.05; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'here?': 0.09; 'lawrence': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'spreading': 0.09; 'subject:language': 0.09; '~ethan~': 0.09; 'python': 0.11; 'language.': 0.14; 'broken.': 0.16; 'iirc': 0.16; 'mark,': 0.16; 'obsessed': 0.16; 'quit.': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'stages': 0.16; 'subject: \n ': 0.16; 'subject:programming': 0.16; 'throw': 0.16; 'language': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'trying': 0.19; 'later': 0.20; 'seems': 0.21; '>>>': 0.22; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.23; '15,': 0.26; 'subject:/': 0.26; 'header:X-Complaints-To:1': 0.27; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'compared': 0.30; 'dec': 0.30; '>>>>': 0.31; "d'aprano": 0.31; 'steven': 0.31; "we're": 0.32; 'fri,': 0.33; 'problem': 0.35; 'really': 0.36; 'edge': 0.36; 'himself': 0.36; 'performance': 0.37; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'does': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'even': 0.60; 'august': 0.61; 'identify': 0.61; 'simply': 0.61; 'first': 0.61; 'real': 0.63; 'our': 0.64; 'become': 0.64; 'world': 0.66; 'boxer': 0.84; 'ethan': 0.84; 'furman': 0.84; 'maths': 0.84; 'rubbish': 0.84; 'trainer': 0.84; 'stood': 0.93; 'fight': 0.97; '2013': 0.98 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: python-list@python.org From: Mark Lawrence Subject: Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 13:21:28 +0000 References: <201312090824.25211.gheskett@wdtv.com> <52A78F6F.3060507@stoneleaf.us> <5b62c6f8-fb92-48ef-a59a-6025b9b39994@googlegroups.com> <52AB9590.80505@stoneleaf.us> <52ac2c58$0$29992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: host-78-147-188-73.as13285.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 In-Reply-To: <52ac2c58$0$29992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 39 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1387027319 news.xs4all.nl 2970 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:40313 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:61894 On 14/12/2013 10:00, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 23:58:14 +0000, Mark Lawrence wrote: > >> On 13/12/2013 23:17, Ethan Furman wrote: >>> On 12/13/2013 03:10 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote: >>>> >>>> Seems like we're now in the later stages of the 15, three minute >>>> rounds. The trainer won't throw in the towel, the referee won't stop >>>> the fight and the boxer himself won't quit. Is jmf actually trying to >>>> get himself killed? >>> >>> His credibility with me has been long dead. :( >>> >>> -- >>> ~Ethan~ >> >> With me it never lived, we've simply had to put up with his FUD for 16 >> months. > > Mark, do you really mean to say that you were prejudiced against JMF > before he even write a word here? > > Strange thing to say, since he did actually identify a real performance > regression, even if he has since become obsessed with demonstrating that > a micro-performance slowdown means that Python is mathematically and > logically broken. > IIRC he first started spreading his rubbish sometime in August 2012, I make that around 16 months, what does your maths skills make it? He also identified a problem in an edge case that stood out like a sore thumb when compared to real world cases. Big deal. -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence