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Groups > comp.lang.python > #49211
| References | (5 earlier) <51C74D6E.6030200@rece.vub.ac.be> <CALwzidnf0h3GUdeQFjwwhMYXXJVyOCFuE-kc564k-j_1icoC_g@mail.gmail.com> <CAPTjJmoeMX5FL=dQzW+W0D1W2BqSP=n+Z412Y_q5zS0gS7+0xg@mail.gmail.com> <CAMjeLr-DGbYboHw7gfANO=pM92==0nvxybyc8CxP-nTyWw-+hg@mail.gmail.com> <CAPTjJmoNhp9Bgx6sUoZAFWm-aDVL4n0L0TW00-6_EbJTrMw6hw@mail.gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-06-25 16:00 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? |
| From | Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> |
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.python |
| Message-ID | <mailman.3865.1372202622.3114.python-list@python.org> (permalink) |
>> Here's how it *should* be made: the most superest, most badassed >> object should take care of its children. New instances should >> automatically call up the super chain (and not leave it up to the >> subclasses), so that the parent classes can take care of the chil'en. >> When something goes wrong the parent class has to look in and see >> what's wrong. > > So what you're saying is that the first class defined does everything, > and subclasses _restrict_ what can be done? I disagree strongly: That's right. Just as the *machine* restricts what can be done. It's an upturning of the purity model and going back to practicality. > 1) That breaks the Liskov Substitution Principle. A subclass of list > ought to fulfill the contracts of a basic list. We don't need LSP. I write about this on the WIkiWikiWeb where there were many arguments documented and many hairs frazzled. LSP was derived from AlanKay's abstract idea of "Everything is an object". But no -- there is a *physics* for information, and it ends at the machine types. > 2) It implies that someone can invent an all-encompassing superclass > before any subclassing is done. No, we start with basic types and work upwards. The "all-encompassing" superclass it an all-encompassing data object: in mathematics, it's called a SET -- and mathematics has already done the work to prove that it's the most generic and all-encompassing, a field of SET THEORY. > This kinda violates the laws of > information. Programmers, being creative entities, will be adding to > the pool of knowledge. Trying to shoehorn everything into one object > won't work. No, we don't need programmers adding to the "pool of knowledge" -- the internet does that. We need programmers making data objects that can present data in new and more interesting ways -- starting from basic principles. -- MarkJ Tacoma, Washington
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What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Adam <jiang.adam@gmail.com> - 2013-06-22 19:58 -0700
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-23 03:20 +0000
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-22 22:27 -0600
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-23 05:23 +0000
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-22 23:40 -0600
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-23 17:29 +0000
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Rotwang <sg552@hotmail.co.uk> - 2013-06-24 02:53 +0100
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-24 06:31 +0000
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Rotwang <sg552@hotmail.co.uk> - 2013-06-24 16:00 +0100
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-24 11:23 -0600
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Adam Jiang <jiang.adam@gmail.com> - 2013-06-23 22:35 +0900
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-23 10:15 -0600
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-23 16:35 +0000
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-06-23 12:49 -0400
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-23 11:08 -0600
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-06-23 14:14 -0400
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-23 11:18 -0600
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-23 17:36 +0000
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-23 12:04 -0600
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-23 18:50 +0000
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-23 13:09 -0600
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-24 01:12 +0000
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-06-23 15:24 -0400
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-24 01:27 +0000
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-06-23 21:38 -0400
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-24 08:06 +0000
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-06-24 08:41 -0400
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-06-24 08:58 -0700
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-24 23:51 +0000
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-24 11:26 -0600
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-06-26 13:14 -0700
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-26 23:54 +0000
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-26 19:03 -0600
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-06-26 17:38 -0700
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-23 18:46 +0000
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-23 13:05 -0600
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-06-26 13:37 -0700
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-06-23 13:33 -0700
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-23 21:33 +0200
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-25 11:44 -0600
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-06-25 14:58 -0700
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-26 08:17 +1000
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-25 16:21 -0600
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-25 16:25 -0600
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-06-25 15:29 -0700
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-06-25 15:27 -0700
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-06-25 15:38 -0700
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-26 08:39 +1000
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-26 08:47 +1000
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-26 08:57 +1000
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Rotwang <sg552@hotmail.co.uk> - 2013-06-26 16:16 +0100
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-27 01:23 +1000
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-25 17:07 -0600
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-26 09:08 +1000
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-25 17:10 -0600
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-06-25 16:19 -0700
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-26 08:36 +0000
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-06-28 10:19 +1000
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-06-28 11:55 -0700
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-06-25 16:00 -0700
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-25 18:19 -0600
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-06-25 18:07 -0700
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-26 17:25 +1000
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-26 02:53 -0600
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-26 09:54 +1000
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-26 12:56 +0200
Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-06-23 13:12 -0700
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