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| From | Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> |
| Subject | Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] |
| Date | Thu, 15 Dec 2011 10:47:49 +0000 |
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On 12/14/11 12:32 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 10:56:02 +0200, Jussi Piitulainen wrote: >> I'm not misunderstanding any argument. There was no argument. There was >> a blanket pronouncement that _in mathematics_ mod is not a binary >> operator. I should learn to challenge such pronouncements and ask what >> the problem is. Maybe next time. > > So this was *one* person making that claim? > > I understand that, in general, mathematicians don't have much need for a > remainder function in the same way programmers do -- modulo arithmetic is > far more important. But there's a world of difference between saying "In > mathematics, extracting the remainder is not important enough to be given > a special symbol and treated as an operator" and saying "remainder is not > a binary operator". The first is reasonable; the second is not. The professional mathematicians that I know personally don't say that "remainder is not a binary operator". They *do* say that "modulo is not an operator" in mathematics just because they have reserved that word and the corresponding notation to define the congruence relations. So for example, the following two statements are equivalent: 42 = 2 mod 5 2 = 42 mod 5 The "mod 5" notation modifies the entire equation (or perhaps the = sign if you like to think about it like that), not the term it is immediately next to. Python's % operator is a binary operator that binds to a particular term, not the whole equation. The following two are not equivalent statements: 42 == 2 % 5 2 == 42 % 5 It's mostly kvetching on their part that programming language designers misunderstood the notation and applied the name to something that is confusingly almost, but not quite, the same thing. They aren't saying that you couldn't *define* such an operator; they would just prefer that we didn't abuse the name. But really, it's their fault for using notation that looks like an operator. -- Robert Kern "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." -- Umberto Eco
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Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Eelco Hoogendoorn <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-12 00:44 +0100
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-12 01:11 +0000
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-12-12 21:09 +1300
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-12-12 10:36 -0500
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> - 2011-12-12 10:55 -0500
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel@gmail.com> - 2011-12-12 16:15 +0000
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-12-13 03:16 +1100
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-12-13 03:19 +1100
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-12 04:21 -0800
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2011-12-12 11:09 -0700
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-12 10:17 -0800
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2011-12-12 11:35 -0700
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-12 10:51 -0800
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2011-12-12 17:34 -0700
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-13 00:31 -0800
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-12 11:05 -0800
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-12 11:20 -0800
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2011-12-12 15:54 -0800
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-13 02:43 +0000
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-12-13 14:08 +1100
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2011-12-12 21:52 -0700
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-13 01:15 -0800
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-13 01:50 -0800
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel@gmail.com> - 2011-12-13 10:15 +0000
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-13 02:39 -0800
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-13 02:46 -0800
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-13 11:28 +0000
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-13 04:19 -0800
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-13 11:13 +0000
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-13 04:47 -0800
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-12-14 00:14 +1100
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-13 05:35 -0800
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax "OKB (not okblacke)" <brenNOSPAMbarn@NObrenSPAMbarn.net> - 2011-12-12 19:45 +0000
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Jussi Piitulainen <jpiitula@ling.helsinki.fi> - 2011-12-12 12:59 +0200
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-12 03:22 -0800
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Jussi Piitulainen <jpiitula@ling.helsinki.fi> - 2011-12-12 13:46 +0200
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-12 03:18 -0800
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-12-12 10:39 -0500
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Jussi Piitulainen <jpiitula@ling.helsinki.fi> - 2011-12-12 18:52 +0200
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-12 09:29 -0800
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Jussi Piitulainen <jpiitula@ling.helsinki.fi> - 2011-12-12 20:09 +0200
% is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-14 03:18 +0000
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-13 23:49 -0800
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel@gmail.com> - 2011-12-14 11:55 +0000
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-14 04:33 -0800
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel@gmail.com> - 2011-12-14 16:13 +0000
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-14 09:15 -0800
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-12-14 19:43 -0800
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-15 01:44 -0800
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-12-15 02:56 -0800
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-15 03:37 -0800
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Jussi Piitulainen <jpiitula@ling.helsinki.fi> - 2011-12-14 10:56 +0200
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-14 02:09 -0800
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Jussi Piitulainen <jpiitula@ling.helsinki.fi> - 2011-12-14 14:22 +0200
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-14 04:41 -0800
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-14 12:38 +0000
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-14 05:29 -0800
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-12-15 00:39 +1100
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2011-12-14 08:45 -0700
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-12-14 15:57 -0500
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-12-14 03:47 -0800
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-12-14 22:53 +1100
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Jussi Piitulainen <jpiitula@ling.helsinki.fi> - 2011-12-14 15:09 +0200
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-14 12:32 +0000
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Jussi Piitulainen <jpiitula@ling.helsinki.fi> - 2011-12-14 15:21 +0200
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> - 2011-12-15 10:47 +0000
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-15 02:59 -0800
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2011-12-15 18:14 -0800
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2011-12-16 02:58 +0000
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-16 02:36 -0800
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-12-16 16:01 +1100
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2011-12-15 21:30 -0800
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-16 02:25 -0800
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-12-16 09:38 -0800
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-16 11:40 -0800
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-12-17 12:49 +1300
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Eelco <hoogendoorn.eelco@gmail.com> - 2011-12-16 16:00 -0800
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2011-12-16 19:03 -0500
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2011-12-17 20:02 +0000
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-17 00:54 +0000
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] David Robinow <drobinow@gmail.com> - 2011-12-16 21:11 -0500
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-12-15 21:58 +1100
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-12-15 03:04 -0800
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Jussi Piitulainen <jpiitula@ling.helsinki.fi> - 2011-12-15 14:48 +0200
Re: % is not an operator [was Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax] Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-12-15 18:15 -0500
Re: % is not an operator Paul Rudin <paul.nospam@rudin.co.uk> - 2011-12-14 09:43 +0000
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> - 2011-12-12 12:58 -0500
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Jussi Piitulainen <jpiitula@ling.helsinki.fi> - 2011-12-14 11:04 +0200
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax gene heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2011-12-12 12:46 -0500
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Dave Angel <d@davea.name> - 2011-12-12 13:04 -0500
Re: Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> - 2011-12-12 13:02 -0500
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