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Groups > comp.lang.python > #86845

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

Date 2015-03-03 15:40 +0100
From Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be>
Subject Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]
References (7 earlier) <87sido6491.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <6d6033b8-d228-4f5f-ac68-ae5b2a226431@googlegroups.com> <md18pj$gab$1@speranza.aioe.org> <87d24regm6.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <54f4763c$0$12979$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Message-ID <mailman.17.1425393710.21433.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

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Op 02-03-15 om 15:39 schreef Steven D'Aprano:
> Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>
>> alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com>:
>>
>>> or as another analogy why don't you (Marco) try telling a Barber in
>>> Seville that he should be speaking Latin Spanish not that strange
>>> variation he uses?
>> If the barber conference language were Latin, and some Spaniard insisted
>> on speaking Western Andalusian, I sure would consider that obnoxious.
>>
>> Similarly, I've heard some Finnish representatives in the Nordic Council
>> complain how the Danish insist on speaking Danish. The official language
>> there is Swedish.
> I'm reminded of the British Prime Minister David Lloyd George, who
> apparently made a habit of answering difficult or embarrassing questions in
> parliament in his native Welsh.
>
>
>>> I suspect the reaction you get will be far more severe than the one
>>> you are getting from we English (& Brits)
>> I don't understand your reaction. The rest of us are willing to walk a
>> mile (say, Finnish -----> American English) and you are up in arms about
>> having to shift a foot (say, Scouse -> American English).
> "Not one inch!"
>
> Sometimes the small differences are more important than the big. Your
> Finnishness is not threatened by learning English, any more than Mark's
> Britishness would be threatened by him learning Russian.
>
> [Now there's a thought... with the historical relationships between Finland
> and Russia, I wonder whether Finns would be as blasé about using a foreign
> language if it were Russian rather than English? But I digress.]
>
> Whereas the comparatively small differences between British and American
> English are all the more important because they distinguish the two. Nobody
> is ever going to mistake Finland and the Finish people for Americans, even
> if you learn to speak American English. But for Britons to use American
> English is, in a way, to cease to be Britons at all.

Nonsense. Why should it be impossible for a Finish person speaking fluent
American English do be mistaken for an American. 

This is mostly about personal attitude --- which can be culturally enforced.
I regularly meet people from the Netherlands who came to live in Northern Belgium.
Some have an attitude like you describe above and others don't and don't mind
adapting their language without feeling any less a Dutchman.

Then we have people whose native tongue is French, who seem to think they will
somehow lose their French speaking identity by learning Dutch.

> Personally, I think that monocultures are harmful and ought to be resisted,
> whether than monoculture is one-species-of-wheat, one-operating-system, or
> one-language. The English-speaking world is threatened by American cultural
> and linguistic monoculture[1], and that's a bad thing. The same applies to
> the rest of the world, but to a much lesser extent. Having a rich and
> varied cultural ecosystem is important, and regional differences in
> language and culture are an essential part in that.

People adapting their language in order to be better understood by their audience
doesn't make a mono culture. This is just one newsgroup/mailing list. Talking
about mono culture because of adapting to one specific variant of a particular
language here makes no more sense than talking about mono culture because the
subject here is python and not other computer languages.

-- 
Antoon Pardon

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Thread

Re: Python Worst Practices Michiel Overtoom <motoom@xs4all.nl> - 2015-02-25 21:58 +0100
  Re: Python Worst Practices BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-02-28 10:28 +0000
    Re: Python Worst Practices Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-02-28 12:56 +0200
      Re: Python Worst Practices wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-02-28 06:26 -0800
      Re: Python Worst Practices Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-02-28 15:43 +0000
      Re: Python Worst Practices Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-01 19:11 +1100
        Re: Python Worst Practices wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-03-01 01:07 -0800
        Re: Python Worst Practices Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-01 18:16 +0200
          Re: Python Worst Practices Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-02 03:32 +1100
            Re: Python Worst Practices Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-01 18:58 +0200
              Re: Python Worst Practices Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-03-01 10:42 -0700
                Re: Python Worst Practices Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-01 21:21 +0200
                OT Accents [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-02 09:43 +1100
          Re: Python Worst Practices Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-01 16:38 +0000
            Re: Python Worst Practices Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-01 19:01 +0200
              Re: Python Worst Practices Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-01 17:34 +0000
                Re: Python Worst Practices Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-01 19:52 +0200
                Re: Python Worst Practices Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-01 18:16 +0000
                Re: Python Worst Practices Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-03-01 19:32 +0100
                Re: Python Worst Practices wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-03-01 11:23 -0800
                Re: Python Worst Practices Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-03-01 20:59 +0100
                Re: Python Worst Practices Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2015-03-02 10:40 +1300
                Re: Python Worst Practices Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2015-03-01 16:47 -0500
                Re: Python Worst Practices Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-01 22:10 +0000
                An injury when I was a sbhoolboy; I was bitten by a bat. (was: Python Worst Practices) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2015-03-02 11:03 +1100
                Re: An injury when I was a sbhoolboy; I was bitten by a bat. Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2015-03-02 11:07 +1100
                Re: Python Worst Practices Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-02 20:02 +0000
              Re: Python Worst Practices Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-03-01 20:14 -0800
                Re: Python Worst Practices Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-02 06:40 +0200
                Re: Python Worst Practices alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-02 08:59 +0000
                Re: Python Worst Practices Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-02 14:19 +0200
                (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-03 01:39 +1100
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-02 17:30 +0200
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-03-03 03:51 +0100
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-03-02 19:51 -0800
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2015-03-03 15:10 +1100
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-03-03 05:32 +0100
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-03-03 03:00 -0800
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-03 11:40 +0000
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] llanitedave <llanitedave@birdandflower.com> - 2015-03-03 21:43 -0800
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-04 15:16 +0200
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-03-04 14:41 +0100
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-04 18:55 +0200
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-03-04 06:45 -0800
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-05 06:14 +1100
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2015-03-04 11:28 -0800
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-04 21:33 +0200
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-05 07:11 +1100
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2015-03-05 07:40 +1100
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Emile van Sebille <emile@fenx.com> - 2015-03-04 14:39 -0800
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2015-03-05 10:36 +1100
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-03-05 20:39 -0500
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-04 20:10 +0000
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-03-04 19:38 -0800
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-05 07:19 +0200
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-03-05 10:16 +0100
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-05 15:39 +0200
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-03-06 00:00 -0800
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-06 08:31 +0000
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-06 12:06 +0200
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-06 12:34 +0000
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-06 12:03 +0200
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] llanitedave <llanitedave@birdandflower.com> - 2015-03-06 08:23 -0800
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-06 20:15 +0200
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2015-03-06 20:26 +0100
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2015-03-06 14:34 +0200
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-05 20:28 +0000
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2015-03-05 21:45 +0200
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-05 22:10 +0200
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-03 02:45 +1100
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python   Worst Practices] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2015-03-03 18:40 +1300
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-03 17:56 +1100
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-03 09:05 +0200
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-03 18:14 +1100
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-03 18:38 +1100
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-03-03 00:12 -0800
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python   Worst Practices] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2015-03-03 23:35 +1300
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2015-03-02 23:35 -0800
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2015-03-02 10:54 -0500
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2015-03-03 11:45 +1300
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2015-03-03 00:23 +0000
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-03 12:00 +1100
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2015-03-03 19:06 +1300
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism,   language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2015-03-03 19:06 +1300
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-03 01:44 +0000
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2015-03-03 02:09 +0000
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-03 16:18 +1100
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2015-03-03 09:17 +0000
                Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2015-03-03 15:40 +0100
                Re: Python Worst Practices alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-02 15:32 +0000
                Re: Python Worst Practices Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-02 15:45 +0000
                Re: Python Worst Practices Manolo Martínez <manolo@austrohungaro.com> - 2015-03-02 13:00 +0100
              Uncanny valley of languages Jonas Wielicki <jonas@wielicki.name> - 2015-03-02 11:54 +0100
                Re: Uncanny valley of languages Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2015-03-02 18:33 -0800
          Re: Python Worst Practices Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-02 03:42 +1100
          Re: Python Worst Practices Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-01 16:52 +0000
          Re: Python Worst Practices alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-01 20:16 +0000
            Re: Python Worst Practices Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-02 07:26 +1100
              Re: Python Worst Practices alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-01 21:07 +0000
            Re: Python Worst Practices Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-01 22:45 +0200
              Re: Python Worst Practices Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-03-01 22:01 +0100
            Re: Python Worst Practices Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-03-01 20:53 -0500
              (Still OT) It's not the size of the vocabulary that matters, but what you do with it [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-02 13:35 +1100
                Re: (Still OT) It's not the size of the vocabulary that matters, but what you do with it [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-01 19:18 -0800
                Re: (Still OT) It's not the size of the vocabulary that matters, but what you do with it [was Re: Python Worst Practices] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-02 14:42 +1100
              Re: Python Worst Practices Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2015-03-02 17:12 +0000
                Re: Python Worst Practices sohcahtoa82@gmail.com - 2015-03-02 11:06 -0800
                Re: Python Worst Practices Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2015-03-02 22:21 +0000
                Re: Python Worst Practices Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-03-02 23:04 -0500
                Re: Python Worst Practices Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-03 06:32 +0200
                Re: Python Worst Practices Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2015-03-03 11:15 +0000
                Re: Python Worst Practices Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-03 15:49 +1100
                Re: Python Worst Practices Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2015-03-03 11:31 +0000
                Re: Python Worst Practices Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-03 07:20 +0000
            Re: Python Worst Practices Travis Griggs <travisgriggs@gmail.com> - 2015-03-02 08:25 -0800
              Re: Python Worst Practices alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-02 17:02 +0000
          Re: Python Worst Practices BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-01 22:14 +0000
          Re: Python Worst Practices Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-02 06:45 +1100

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