Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.python > #24760

Re: code review

References (16 earlier) <4fefcf72$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <mailman.1670.1341116619.4697.python-list@python.org> <4fefedd8$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <mailman.1675.1341124398.4697.python-list@python.org> <4ff0f939$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Date 2012-07-02 12:04 +1000
Subject Re: code review
From Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Message-ID <mailman.1695.1341194673.4697.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

Show all headers | View raw

On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 11:28 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 16:33:15 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Steven D'Aprano
>> <steve+usenet@pearwood.info> wrote:
>>> Yes, you can find specially crafted examples where adding parentheses
>>> in certain places, but not others, doesn't change the overall
>>> evaluation of the expression.
>>
>> My point was that adding parentheses around the tightest-binding
>> operator is a common, clear, and usually insignificant, way of
>> demonstrating operator precedence. So FOR THAT USE they must not change
>> evaluation of the expression. Obviously if you put them anywhere else,
>> they change evaluation. Nice job knocking down a straw man.
>
> We *really did have* somebody arguing that chained comparisons are Bad
> because you can't stick parentheses around bits of it without changing
> the semantics. That was an actual argument, not a straw-man.

Okay, I take back the "straw man" accusation, and apologize for it.
But you were quoting my text at the time, so I thought you were aiming
at my argument - which, not being that, was what led me to think you
were answering what you weren't answering.

> Chained comparisons in the Python sense may be rare in computer
> languages, but it is the standard in mathematics and hardly needs to be
> explained to anyone over the age of twelve. That is a terrible indictment
> on the state of programming language design.

I'd say that proves that Python is a good language for expressing
mathematics in, then. That's all. Doesn't necessarily mean it's good
for any other task (doesn't mean it's bad either of course). Python
does not, meanwhile, have inbuilt operators for calculus, nor does it
have an equation solver. Do we absolutely need them? Empirically no.
Python can be an excellent language without making every bit of
mathematical notation executable. There are, I am sure, plenty of
cases where it would be nice to go:

x = y+2
x*3 = y*4+7
print("x = %d, y = %d",x,y)

You can argue that Python ought to have more-different operators for
comparison and assignment, but the fact of algebra is that it has
neither - the equals sign is more of a declaration of truth. Algebra
simply isn't imperative. It's fine (and fits the Eliza principle) to
evaluate expressions algebraically, but equations aren't assignment.

ChrisA

Back to comp.lang.python | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

code review "Littlefield, Tyler" <tyler@tysdomain.com> - 2012-06-28 20:57 -0600
  Re: code review alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-06-28 20:58 -0700
    Re: code review Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-06-29 07:31 +0000
      Re: code review Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-06-29 17:42 +1000
      Re: code review "Littlefield, Tyler" <tyler@tysdomain.com> - 2012-06-29 09:03 -0600
        Re: code review Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2012-06-29 19:41 +0000
          Re: code review MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2012-06-29 21:09 +0100
          Re: code review "Martin P. Hellwig" <martin.hellwig@gmail.com> - 2012-06-29 13:27 -0700
            Re: code review Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2012-06-29 20:43 +0000
              Re: code review Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-06-29 19:02 -0400
              Re: code review Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-06-29 23:02 -0400
          Re: code review "Littlefield, Tyler" <tyler@tysdomain.com> - 2012-06-29 14:49 -0600
            Re: code review Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2012-06-30 09:31 +0000
              Re: code review Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2012-06-30 09:36 +0000
          Re: code review Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-06-30 02:28 +0000
            Re: code review Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2012-06-30 09:22 +0000
          Re: code review Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-06-29 23:00 -0400
        Re: code review Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2012-06-30 10:04 +0000
          Re: code review Peter Otten <__peter__@web.de> - 2012-06-30 12:29 +0200
            Re: code review Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-06-30 20:39 +0200
              Re: code review Thomas Jollans <t@jollybox.de> - 2012-06-30 21:38 +0200
                Re: code review Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2012-06-30 20:30 +0000
                Re: code review Thomas Jollans <t@jollybox.de> - 2012-06-30 22:50 +0200
                Re: code review Alain Ketterlin <alain@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> - 2012-06-30 23:07 +0200
                Re: code review Thomas Jollans <t@jollybox.de> - 2012-06-30 23:35 +0200
                Re: code review Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-06-30 17:47 -0400
                Re: code review Thomas Jollans <t@jollybox.de> - 2012-07-01 00:05 +0200
                Re: code review Alain Ketterlin <alain@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> - 2012-07-01 01:03 +0200
                Re: code review Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2012-07-01 10:08 +1000
                Re: code review Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-07-01 10:37 +1000
                Re: code review Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-07-01 03:23 +0000
                Re: code review Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-07-01 13:48 +1000
                Re: code review Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-07-01 06:54 +0000
                Re: code review Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-07-01 16:59 +1000
                Re: code review Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-07-01 05:55 -0400
                Re: code review Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-07-02 01:26 +0000
                Re: code review Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-07-13 12:30 +0000
                Re: code review Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-07-13 15:04 +0000
                Re: code review Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-07-14 01:36 +1000
                Re: code review rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-07-13 09:24 -0700
                Re: code review Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-07-13 16:39 -0400
                Re: code review Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2012-07-16 10:43 +0000
                Re: code review Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2012-07-16 21:34 +1000
                Re: code review Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-07-17 10:54 +0000
                Re: code review Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-07-13 19:09 -0400
                Re: code review Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-07-14 03:26 -0600
                Re: code review Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-07-14 16:42 -0400
                Re: code review rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-06-30 21:07 -0700
                Re: code review Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-07-01 14:20 +1000
                Re: code review Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2012-07-01 17:28 +1000
                Re: code review Thomas Jollans <t@jollybox.de> - 2012-07-01 09:46 +0200
                Re: code review HoneyMonster <nobody@someplace.invalid> - 2012-07-01 20:53 +0000
                Re: code review Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2012-07-01 05:18 -0400
                Re: code review Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-07-02 00:41 +0000
                Re: code review Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2012-07-01 21:40 -0400
                Re: code review Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-07-01 13:41 -0400
                Re: code review John O'Hagan <research@johnohagan.com> - 2012-07-02 14:43 +1000
                Re: Re: code review Evan Driscoll <driscoll@cs.wisc.edu> - 2012-06-30 23:45 -0500
                Re: Re: code review Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-07-01 08:57 +0200
                Re: code review Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2012-07-01 09:54 +0000
                Re: Re: code review Evan Driscoll <driscoll@cs.wisc.edu> - 2012-07-01 10:48 -0500
                Re: Re: code review lars van gemerden <lars@rational-it.com> - 2012-07-06 04:22 -0700
                Re: Re: code review lars van gemerden <lars@rational-it.com> - 2012-07-06 04:22 -0700
                Re: code review Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-07-06 13:58 +0000
                Re: code review Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-07-13 08:32 -0700
                Re: code review Evan Driscoll <driscoll@cs.wisc.edu> - 2012-06-30 23:57 -0500
                Re: code review Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-07-01 09:04 +0200
                Re: code review Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-07-01 02:06 +0000
                Re: code review Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-07-01 12:20 +1000
                Re: code review Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-07-01 04:17 +0000
                Re: code review Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-07-01 14:23 +1000
                Re: code review Steven D'Aprano <steve+usenet@pearwood.info> - 2012-07-01 06:27 +0000
                Re: code review Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-07-01 16:33 +1000
                Re: code review Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-07-02 01:28 +0000
                Re: code review Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2012-07-01 21:50 -0400
                Re: code review Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-07-02 07:29 +0000
                Re: code review Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-07-02 12:04 +1000
                Re: code review Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-07-02 08:11 +0000
                Re: code review Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-07-02 18:20 +1000
                Re: code review Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-07-02 08:57 -0700
                Re: code review Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-07-03 02:42 +1000
                Re: code review Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-07-02 11:22 -0700
                Re: code review Thomas Jollans <t@jollybox.de> - 2012-07-02 21:06 +0200
                Re: code review Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-07-02 12:35 -0700
                Re: code review Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-07-03 07:57 +1000
                Re: code review Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2012-07-03 12:19 +0000
                Re: code review Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-07-02 01:20 -0400
                Re: code review Thomas Jollans <t@jollybox.de> - 2012-07-02 16:41 +0200
                Re: code review Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-07-02 11:33 -0400
                Re: code review Thomas Jollans <t@jollybox.de> - 2012-07-01 09:35 +0200
                Re: code review Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-07-02 00:43 +0000
                Re: code review Thomas Jollans <t@jollybox.de> - 2012-07-02 16:26 +0200
                Re: code review Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-07-02 08:16 -0700
                Re: code review Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-07-03 02:55 +1000
                Re: code review Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-07-03 00:57 +0000
                Re: code review Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-07-03 11:22 +1000
                Re: code review John O'Hagan <research@johnohagan.com> - 2012-07-03 12:25 +1000
                Re: code review Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-07-03 04:11 +0000
                Re: code review Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-07-03 02:09 -0400
                Re: code review Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-07-03 08:33 -0400
                Re: code review Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-03 16:53 +0100
                Re: code review Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-07-03 17:32 -0400
                Re: code review rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-07-02 22:10 -0700
                Re: code review Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2012-07-03 15:46 +1000
                Re: code review John O'Hagan <research@johnohagan.com> - 2012-07-04 00:59 +1000
                Re: code review Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-03 16:50 +0100
                Re: code review Paul Rudin <paul.nospam@rudin.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 10:29 +0100
                Re: code review Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 17:25 +0100
                Re: code review Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-07-04 01:53 +1000
                Re: code review Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-03 17:05 +0100
                Re: code review Dave Angel <d@davea.name> - 2012-07-03 16:13 -0400
                Re: code review Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-07-04 07:54 +1000
                Re: code review Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-04 09:28 +0100
                Re: code review rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-06-30 19:37 -0700
                Re: code review Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-07-01 09:25 +1000
                Re: code review Thomas Jollans <t@jollybox.de> - 2012-07-01 01:50 +0200
                Re: code review "Martin P. Hellwig" <martin.hellwig@gmail.com> - 2012-06-30 14:48 -0700
                Re: code review Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-07-02 13:16 -0600
            Re: code review Alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2012-06-30 20:25 +0000
          Re: code review Kushal Kumaran <kushal.kumaran+python@gmail.com> - 2012-07-03 23:23 +0530
            Re: code review John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2012-07-03 18:18 +0000
              Re: code review Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-07-03 12:27 -0600
              Re: code review Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-07-04 07:51 +1000
          Re: code review Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-07-03 12:19 -0600
          Re: code review kushal.kumaran+python@gmail.com - 2012-07-04 08:27 +0530
          Re: code review Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-07-04 13:53 +1000
          Re: code review Simon Cropper <simoncropper@fossworkflowguides.com> - 2012-07-04 14:55 +1000
          Re: code review "Littlefield, Tyler" <tyler@tysdomain.com> - 2012-07-03 23:39 -0600
            Re: code review alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-07-03 23:17 -0700
              Re: code review rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-07-04 00:05 -0700
          Apology for OT posts (was: code review) John O'Hagan <research@johnohagan.com> - 2012-07-06 12:06 +1000
          Re: Apology for OT posts Simon Cropper <simoncropper@fossworkflowguides.com> - 2012-07-06 15:30 +1000
          Re: Apology for OT posts Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-07-06 17:45 +1000
          Re: Apology for OT posts Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-06 10:37 +0100

csiph-web