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Re: Python Front-end to GCC

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Date Mon, 21 Oct 2013 13:14:51 -0700
Subject Re: Python Front-end to GCC
From Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com>
To "Steven D'Aprano" <steve@pearwood.info>
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On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 12:46 AM, Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Oct 2013 20:35:03 -0700, Mark Janssen wrote:
>
> [Attribution to the original post has been lost]
>>> Is a jit implementation of a language (not just python) better than
>>> traditional ahead of time compilation.
>>
>> Not at all.  The value of jit compilation, I believe, is purely for the
>> dynamic functionality that it allows.  AOT compilation will never allow
>> that, but in return you get massive performance and runtime-size gains
>
> On the contrary, you have that backwards. An optimizing JIT compiler can
> often produce much more efficient, heavily optimized code than a static
> AOT compiler,

This is horseshit.

> and at the very least they can optimize different things
> than a static compiler can.

Okay sure.  But now you've watered down your claim that's it's not
saying much of anything.

> This is why very few people think that, in
> the long run, Nuitka can be as fast as PyPy, and why PyPy's ultimate aim
> to be "faster than C" is not moonbeams:

It is moonbeams, but that's a good thing.  I think you don't
understand how computers work, Steven.
In any event, PyPy is a great project for those who want experiment
with compiler and language design.

> JIT compilation is really about optimization,

No.

> which is why languages like
> Java and .NET which could easily be compiled to machine code at compile
> time generally use an intermediate bytecode and a JIT compiler instead.
> They're not doing it for dynamism since they aren't dynamic languages.
> It's a way of generating more aggressive (i.e. better but harder)
> optimizations based on information only available at runtime.

This must is true, but not for reasons you understand.

-- 
MarkJ
Tacoma, Washington

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Thread

Python Front-end to GCC Philip Herron <herron.philip@googlemail.com> - 2013-10-20 10:56 -0700
  Re: Python Front-end to GCC victorgarcianet@gmail.com - 2013-10-20 15:10 -0700
    Re: Python Front-end to GCC John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2013-10-22 23:48 -0700
      Re: Python Front-end to GCC Philip Herron <herron.philip@googlemail.com> - 2013-10-23 00:25 -0700
        Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-23 09:42 +0100
        Re: Python Front-end to GCC John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2013-10-23 13:51 -0700
  Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-20 20:35 -0700
    Re: Python Front-end to GCC Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-21 07:46 +0000
      Re: Python Front-end to GCC Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-10-21 10:55 +0100
        Re: Python Front-end to GCC Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-21 23:41 +0000
          Re: Python Front-end to GCC Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 10:14 +0100
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Philip Herron <herron.philip@googlemail.com> - 2013-10-22 02:32 -0700
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-22 12:00 +0000
              Re: Python Front-end to GCC Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 23:20 +1100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-22 17:27 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-23 08:43 +1100
              Re: Python Front-end to GCC Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2013-10-22 14:04 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-22 15:22 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-10-22 15:39 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-22 16:40 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-22 17:50 +0100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Chris Kaynor <ckaynor@zindagigames.com> - 2013-10-22 09:52 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Frank Miles <fpm@u.washington.edu> - 2013-10-22 16:53 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-22 17:23 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Chris Kaynor <ckaynor@zindagigames.com> - 2013-10-22 10:35 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-10-22 17:37 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 18:37 +0100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-10-22 18:42 +0100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-10-22 18:49 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-25 04:40 +0100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 04:55 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2013-10-25 12:55 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-25 15:18 +0100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-10-25 10:35 -0400
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 11:26 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-10-25 19:06 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-25 19:40 +0100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 11:45 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 11:59 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 12:09 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 12:15 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-25 20:02 +0100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 12:18 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2013-10-26 14:31 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-26 15:10 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-27 15:14 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-27 19:15 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-28 08:44 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-28 02:31 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-25 20:36 +0100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 12:49 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-25 21:14 +0100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2013-10-26 07:11 +1100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 13:29 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-25 21:36 +0100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-26 02:42 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-25 21:44 +0100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2013-10-26 07:48 +1100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-25 21:56 +0100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 14:02 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-25 22:11 +0100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 14:37 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-25 22:56 +0100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-26 13:36 +1100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-10-22 17:15 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-10-22 18:58 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-10-22 20:26 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-10-22 15:36 +0000
              Re: Python Front-end to GCC Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 15:15 +0100
      Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-21 13:14 -0700
      Re: Python Front-end to GCC Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-10-21 16:29 -0400
        Re: Python Front-end to GCC rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-21 20:40 -0700
  Re: Python Front-end to GCC Philip Herron <herron.philip@googlemail.com> - 2013-10-21 04:08 -0700
    Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-21 13:26 -0700
      Re: Python Front-end to GCC Philip Herron <herron.philip@googlemail.com> - 2013-10-21 14:03 -0700
        Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-21 16:04 -0700
          Re: Python Front-end to GCC Piet van Oostrum <piet@vanoostrum.org> - 2013-10-21 23:45 -0400
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-21 21:24 -0700
              Re: Python Front-end to GCC Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-22 05:25 +0000
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2013-10-22 04:39 +0000
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 08:04 -0700
              Re: Python Front-end to GCC Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-22 17:09 +0000
              Re: Python Front-end to GCC Piet van Oostrum <piet@vanoostrum.org> - 2013-10-22 13:20 -0400
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-10-22 11:46 -0400
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-22 16:52 +0100
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Benjamin Kaplan <benjamin.kaplan@case.edu> - 2013-10-22 09:03 -0700
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 10:50 -0700
              Re: Python Front-end to GCC rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 11:11 -0700
              Re: Python Front-end to GCC Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-10-22 18:18 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Piet van Oostrum <piet@vanoostrum.org> - 2013-10-22 15:20 -0400
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-10-22 19:27 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-22 20:38 +0100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-10-22 20:00 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-22 20:32 +0100
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Skip Montanaro <skip@pobox.com> - 2013-10-22 13:08 -0500
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-10-22 19:16 +0100
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 11:16 -0700
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 11:22 -0700
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 11:28 -0700
              Re: Python Front-end to GCC Piet van Oostrum <piet@vanoostrum.org> - 2013-10-22 18:11 -0400
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-23 17:28 +1100
              Re: Python Front-end to GCC Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-10-22 22:47 +0000
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-10-22 14:23 -0400
              Re: Python Front-end to GCC rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 11:40 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-22 19:58 +0100
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-10-22 14:40 -0400
              Re: Python Front-end to GCC alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-10-23 11:36 +1000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 21:04 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-23 07:06 +0100
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-10-22 19:47 +0100
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-10-22 13:56 -0400
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 22:05 -0600
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-23 07:13 +0100
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-26 14:25 -0700
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-26 14:33 -0700
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-26 22:38 +0100
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-26 22:35 +0100
    Re: Python Front-end to GCC Antoine Pitrou <solipsis@pitrou.net> - 2013-10-22 08:55 +0000
      Re: Python Front-end to GCC Philip Herron <herron.philip@googlemail.com> - 2013-10-22 02:08 -0700
      Re: Python Front-end to GCC Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-22 10:10 +0000
        Re: Python Front-end to GCC Antoine Pitrou <solipsis@pitrou.net> - 2013-10-22 15:51 +0000
    Re: Python Front-end to GCC Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2013-10-24 08:47 +0200
  Re: Python Front-end to GCC xDog Walker <thudfoo@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 14:49 -0700

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