Re: Python Front-end to GCC

References	(3 earlier) <54f8eb09-7a2e-4306-86f2-7ae118fa8055@googlegroups.com> <mailman.1329.1382396650.18130.python-list@python.org> <m2haca2cjv.fsf@cochabamba.vanoostrum.org> <CAMjeLr9p9bE9g0PSAQN5_H0uQjOuBaq+_4Mj43Y3LCLNEY8n2A@mail.gmail.com> <l44vhp$f51$1@ger.gmane.org>
Date	2013-10-26 14:25 -0700
Subject	Re: Python Front-end to GCC
From	Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.python
Message-ID	<mailman.1608.1382822737.18130.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

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[Getting back to some old comments....]

>>> A language specification in BNF is just syntax. It doesn't say anything
>>> about semantics. So how could this be used to produce executable C code
>>> for a program? BNF is used to produce parsers. But a parser isn't
>>> sufficient.
>>
>> A C program is just syntax also.  How does the compiler generate
>> executable machine code?  Extrapolate into a Python front-end to C.
>
> Did you even read the paragraph you quoted above?  The BNF specification
> does NOT completely describe a language, it only defines its syntax.

Computer Science 301 (a.k.a. "educating the python brogrammers who've
been too long using interpreted languages"):

C source ("blah.c") is broken down into a linear sequence of tokens
fed into a parser.  The BNF definition for C takes those tokens/syntax
and produces a lexical graph of the source -- its grammatical form.
This becomes an abstract syntax *tree* because there is a "main"
function (without which I don't believe you can call a language
formally "Turing Complete" because one doesn't know where to begin to
feed the machine (wait for it.... boom)).  In any case, this *roots*
the abstract lexical graph and forms the basis for compiling into
machine code.

>  So
> if the only thing you knew about C was its BNF, you could certainly not
> write a C compiler.  And neither could anyone else.

Well, now you're confusing everybody, because you're asking, in
essence: "what is the meaning of a symbol to a computer?", and since
there isn't one, then you should wonder: "how are you going to get it
to 'do the right thing?'"  For that, you'll have to take Mark
Janssen's PHIL 444: "Epistemics of Quantity" (not offered from the
internet).

Now, please give credit to all the old-timers who paved the way for
all you to be partying in the easy-land of high-level languages like
Python.  It's them who made the computer SCIENCE.  You guys have been
so spoiled, you're taking it all for granted and confusing people with
all your claptrap about TYPES.  The insane cannot tell that they're
insane.  Remember that.

> Fortunately for the
> C community, the language specification included much more than a BNF
> grammar.  At a minimum, you have to specify both the syntax and the
> semantics.

I will look forward to how you will give a semantic specification for
the C token "{": left bracket.

Apologies will be accepted on the list.

Mark J

Thread

Python Front-end to GCC Philip Herron <herron.philip@googlemail.com> - 2013-10-20 10:56 -0700
  Re: Python Front-end to GCC victorgarcianet@gmail.com - 2013-10-20 15:10 -0700
    Re: Python Front-end to GCC John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2013-10-22 23:48 -0700
      Re: Python Front-end to GCC Philip Herron <herron.philip@googlemail.com> - 2013-10-23 00:25 -0700
        Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-23 09:42 +0100
        Re: Python Front-end to GCC John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2013-10-23 13:51 -0700
  Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-20 20:35 -0700
    Re: Python Front-end to GCC Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-21 07:46 +0000
      Re: Python Front-end to GCC Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-10-21 10:55 +0100
        Re: Python Front-end to GCC Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-21 23:41 +0000
          Re: Python Front-end to GCC Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 10:14 +0100
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Philip Herron <herron.philip@googlemail.com> - 2013-10-22 02:32 -0700
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-22 12:00 +0000
              Re: Python Front-end to GCC Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 23:20 +1100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-22 17:27 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-23 08:43 +1100
              Re: Python Front-end to GCC Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2013-10-22 14:04 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-22 15:22 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-10-22 15:39 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-22 16:40 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-22 17:50 +0100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Chris Kaynor <ckaynor@zindagigames.com> - 2013-10-22 09:52 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-11-01 22:48 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Frank Miles <fpm@u.washington.edu> - 2013-10-22 16:53 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-22 17:23 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Chris Kaynor <ckaynor@zindagigames.com> - 2013-10-22 10:35 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-10-22 17:37 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 18:37 +0100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-10-22 18:42 +0100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-10-22 18:49 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-25 04:40 +0100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 04:55 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2013-10-25 12:55 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-25 15:18 +0100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-10-25 10:35 -0400
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 11:26 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-10-25 19:06 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-25 19:40 +0100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 11:45 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 11:59 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 12:09 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 12:15 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-25 20:02 +0100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 12:18 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2013-10-26 14:31 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-26 15:10 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-27 15:14 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-27 19:15 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-28 08:44 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-28 02:31 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-25 20:36 +0100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 12:49 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-25 21:14 +0100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2013-10-26 07:11 +1100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 13:29 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-25 21:36 +0100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-26 02:42 +0000
                [OT] Re: Python Front-end to GCC Antoine Pitrou <solipsis@pitrou.net> - 2013-10-29 11:04 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-25 21:44 +0100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2013-10-26 07:48 +1100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-25 21:56 +0100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 14:02 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-25 22:11 +0100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 14:37 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-25 22:56 +0100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-26 13:36 +1100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-10-22 17:15 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-10-22 18:58 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-10-22 20:26 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-10-22 15:36 +0000
              Re: Python Front-end to GCC Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 15:15 +0100
      Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-21 13:14 -0700
      Re: Python Front-end to GCC Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-10-21 16:29 -0400
        Re: Python Front-end to GCC rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-21 20:40 -0700
  Re: Python Front-end to GCC Philip Herron <herron.philip@googlemail.com> - 2013-10-21 04:08 -0700
    Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-21 13:26 -0700
      Re: Python Front-end to GCC Philip Herron <herron.philip@googlemail.com> - 2013-10-21 14:03 -0700
        Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-21 16:04 -0700
          Re: Python Front-end to GCC Piet van Oostrum <piet@vanoostrum.org> - 2013-10-21 23:45 -0400
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-21 21:24 -0700
              Re: Python Front-end to GCC Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-22 05:25 +0000
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2013-10-22 04:39 +0000
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 08:04 -0700
              Re: Python Front-end to GCC Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-22 17:09 +0000
              Re: Python Front-end to GCC Piet van Oostrum <piet@vanoostrum.org> - 2013-10-22 13:20 -0400
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-10-22 11:46 -0400
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-22 16:52 +0100
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Benjamin Kaplan <benjamin.kaplan@case.edu> - 2013-10-22 09:03 -0700
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 10:50 -0700
              Re: Python Front-end to GCC rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 11:11 -0700
              Re: Python Front-end to GCC Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-10-22 18:18 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Piet van Oostrum <piet@vanoostrum.org> - 2013-10-22 15:20 -0400
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-10-22 19:27 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-22 20:38 +0100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-10-22 20:00 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-22 20:32 +0100
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Skip Montanaro <skip@pobox.com> - 2013-10-22 13:08 -0500
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-10-22 19:16 +0100
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 11:16 -0700
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 11:22 -0700
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 11:28 -0700
              Re: Python Front-end to GCC Piet van Oostrum <piet@vanoostrum.org> - 2013-10-22 18:11 -0400
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-23 17:28 +1100
              Re: Python Front-end to GCC Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-10-22 22:47 +0000
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-10-22 14:23 -0400
              Re: Python Front-end to GCC rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 11:40 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-22 19:58 +0100
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-10-22 14:40 -0400
              Re: Python Front-end to GCC alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-10-23 11:36 +1000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 21:04 -0700
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-23 07:06 +0100
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-10-22 19:47 +0100
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-10-22 13:56 -0400
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-10-22 22:05 -0600
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-23 07:13 +0100
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-26 14:25 -0700
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-10-26 14:33 -0700
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-26 22:38 +0100
            Re: Python Front-end to GCC Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-26 22:35 +0100
              Re: Python Front-end to GCC Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-10-28 14:21 +0000
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-29 01:26 +1100
                Re: Python Front-end to GCC Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-10-28 15:01 +0000
    Re: Python Front-end to GCC Antoine Pitrou <solipsis@pitrou.net> - 2013-10-22 08:55 +0000
      Re: Python Front-end to GCC Philip Herron <herron.philip@googlemail.com> - 2013-10-22 02:08 -0700
      Re: Python Front-end to GCC Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-22 10:10 +0000
        Re: Python Front-end to GCC Antoine Pitrou <solipsis@pitrou.net> - 2013-10-22 15:51 +0000
    Re: Python Front-end to GCC Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2013-10-24 08:47 +0200
  Re: Python Front-end to GCC xDog Walker <thudfoo@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 14:49 -0700
  Re: Python Front-end to GCC sharath.cs.smp@gmail.com - 2013-11-15 07:59 -0800

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