Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > comp.lang.python > #2439
| Path | csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!usenet.pasdenom.info!news.albasani.net!feeder.news-service.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed5.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail |
|---|---|
| Return-Path | <rosuav@gmail.com> |
| X-Original-To | python-list@python.org |
| Delivered-To | python-list@mail.python.org |
| X-Spam-Status | OK 0.003 |
| X-Spam-Evidence | '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'library,': 0.05; 'c++,': 0.07; 'networking,': 0.07; 'python': 0.07; 'instance.': 0.09; 'modifier': 0.09; 'not?': 0.09; 'parameter.': 0.09; 'subject:method': 0.09; 'though:': 0.09; 'pm,': 0.11; 'programmer': 0.11; 'c++': 0.12; 'wrote:': 0.14; '(oop)': 0.16; 'ability,': 0.16; 'cmp': 0.16; 'hierarchy': 0.16; 'stake': 0.16; 'subject:sort': 0.16; '\xa0you': 0.16; 'discussion': 0.20; 'interface': 0.20; 'maybe': 0.21; '(or': 0.22; 'header:In-Reply- To:1': 0.22; 'primarily': 0.22; 'division': 0.23; 'happen.': 0.23; 'objects,': 0.23; 'received:209.85.214.174': 0.23; 'received:mail- iw0-f174.google.com': 0.23; 'works.': 0.23; 'objects': 0.24; "didn't": 0.25; 'there.': 0.26; "i'm": 0.26; 'chris': 0.27; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.28; 'sat,': 0.29; 'class': 0.29; 'about.': 0.29; 'acceptable': 0.29; '(the': 0.30; 'oop': 0.31; 'does': 0.31; 'it.': 0.31; 'separate': 0.31; 'to:addr:python- list': 0.32; 'done': 0.32; 'agree': 0.32; 'presentation': 0.32; "i've": 0.33; 'character': 0.33; 'implemented': 0.33; 'things': 0.33; 'sometimes': 0.33; 'using': 0.34; 'skip:" 10': 0.34; 'difference': 0.35; 'question': 0.35; 'point': 0.35; 'quite': 0.36; 'feature': 0.36; 'plain': 0.36; 'systems,': 0.36; 'getting': 0.36; 'think': 0.36; 'none': 0.36; 'enough': 0.37; 'else': 0.37; 'some': 0.37; 'should': 0.37; 'received:209.85': 0.37; 'either': 0.37; 'apr': 0.38; 'thread': 0.38; 'received:google.com': 0.38; 'but': 0.38; 'reasons': 0.38; 'completely': 0.38; 'received:209.85.214': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'comes': 0.39; 'where': 0.39; 'received:209': 0.39; 'works': 0.40; 'happened': 0.40; "it's": 0.40; 'header:Received:5': 0.40; 'removal': 0.60; 'happen': 0.61; 'design': 0.61; '2011': 0.62; 'glad': 0.64; 'perfectly': 0.65; 'appreciation': 0.68; 'stability': 0.68; 'here.': 0.68; 'day.': 0.71; 'soon': 0.76; 'lengthy': 0.84; 'notably,': 0.84; 'subject:removal': 0.84 |
| DKIM-Signature | v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=wdB5u6hgvuYQibc6dPO3MscPhFFfFtKWoXLFku6qL9M=; b=uKUyHxdgxPFLZ71uKiTcoTxs303MZ/H02eMIK/ZqbRmMQxVoyD2cJYU4Kt39o4xkyH 93sCLLKBf72b21iQ5wAO4PSBPmj1Bh6RPzAplEnipfxG+iqxwwRciyrNdTeFDFmjzBtU CXtGuROrtCeK2RLkg/N/IXF4sCgP+HF3+Mn1c= |
| DomainKey-Signature | a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=rO2v9WRE2d0FNiOTHTO5I8bdMV3Du0j5YaysX9cuUPR2MCJFMxt1e1ZQgt9yQVcJBi bZ/FJVTf+7JARLupsp8zIinZbnIjXbIlXJD0Fcw6ZC8boslunGpKMvVg3sEt8LSe0sCs BxeEo/9BMd1T+HS1ql52HzAHV8e4ZlNTyPVkM= |
| MIME-Version | 1.0 |
| In-Reply-To | <8kylp.4903$yp3.4046@newsfe09.iad> |
| References | <4d7cbfcb$0$29971$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <mailman.1175.1300888311.1189.python-list@python.org> <JfVkp.5068$sS4.4758@newsfe11.iad> <4d94326c$0$30003$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <R1elp.6224$sP1.5155@newsfe07.iad> <mailman.85.1301677576.2990.python-list@python.org> <y_xlp.24978$tL6.16271@newsfe03.iad> <mailman.119.1301720798.2990.python-list@python.org> <8kylp.4903$yp3.4046@newsfe09.iad> |
| Date | Sat, 2 Apr 2011 17:17:43 +1100 |
| Subject | Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method |
| From | Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> |
| To | python-list@python.org |
| Content-Type | text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 |
| Content-Transfer-Encoding | quoted-printable |
| X-BeenThere | python-list@python.org |
| X-Mailman-Version | 2.1.12 |
| Precedence | list |
| List-Id | General discussion list for the Python programming language <python-list.python.org> |
| List-Unsubscribe | <http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=unsubscribe> |
| List-Archive | <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list> |
| List-Post | <mailto:python-list@python.org> |
| List-Help | <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=help> |
| List-Subscribe | <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=subscribe> |
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.python |
| Message-ID | <mailman.121.1301725067.2990.python-list@python.org> (permalink) |
| Lines | 66 |
| NNTP-Posting-Host | 82.94.164.166 |
| X-Trace | 1301725067 news.xs4all.nl 81482 [::ffff:82.94.164.166]:39533 |
| X-Complaints-To | abuse@xs4all.nl |
| Xref | x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.python:2439 |
Show key headers only | View raw
On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 4:17 PM, harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> wrote: > Chris Angelico wrote: >> >> Why this lengthy discussion on whether Python is object-oriented or >> not? What difference does it make? > > Great question... glad you asked...! > >> But bad things sometimes have to happen. And that's why things are >> versioned. > > You didn't read the post... cmp removal is a bad thing, and it does not > need to, and should not have to happen. I agree that removal of a feature like that is a bad thing. But the whole point of this thread is the question of whether or not it should have happened (or rather, whether or not it should be undone). > Wrong... one of the reasons for OOP in the first place ( OOA&D ) is to > ensure that BAD THINGS DO NOT HAPPEN. Code reuse and stability are key... > and OOA&D helps to make sure that works. So it's perfectly acceptable for bad things to happen in a non-object-oriented library, but as soon as it works with objects, it has to eschew badness? This does not make sense. > You need to read Grady Booch... and study a little OOP design either > using SmallTalk, or C++, to get an appreciation maybe for what is at stake > here. I've been a C++ programmer for nearly twenty years. I think I know a few things about OOP. Actually, I've done OOP in non-OO languages; most notably, plain old C. The OS/2 Presentation Manager class hierarchy (SOM) is primarily implemented in C, for instance. My point is that "object orientation" is completely separate from "implementation is separate from interface". > You may not have enough knowledge to understand what I'm talking about. > Forgive me. Maybe I don't. Let me check my character sheet... Skill, Ranks, Ability, Total modifier Knowledge (Arcana): 19 + 4 = 23 Knowledge (History): 11 + 4 = 15 Knowledge (Nature): 2 + 4 = 6 Knowledge (The Planes): 0 Not sure where Knowledge (OOP) comes in there. Must ask my DM some day. Seriously though: I've programmed various systems, where the division of "interface" and "implementation" come in quite different places; my favorite being networking, where the interface is the comms protocol, and everything else is implementation. Objects don't come into it. But this is getting seriously off-topic; none of this connects with the cmp= parameter. Chris Angelico
Back to comp.lang.python | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-03-31 01:34 -0500
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-03-31 07:51 +0000
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-04-01 01:13 -0500
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-04-01 17:30 +1100
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2011-04-01 00:45 -0700
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-04-01 12:59 -0400
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-04-01 14:57 -0400
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2011-04-01 12:22 -0700
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-04-01 22:21 -0400
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Antoon Pardon <Antoon.Pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2011-04-04 11:34 +0200
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Lie Ryan <lie.1296@gmail.com> - 2011-04-04 23:35 +1000
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-04-04 13:26 -0400
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-04-04 15:05 -0400
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-04-04 13:22 -0400
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-04-01 15:37 -0400
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2011-04-01 14:37 -0700
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-04-02 00:42 +0000
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2011-04-01 19:31 -0700
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Benjamin Peterson <benjamin@python.org> - 2011-04-02 03:31 +0000
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2011-04-01 20:43 -0700
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-04-02 10:13 +0000
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-04-04 14:10 -0700
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-04-05 07:41 +1000
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-04-04 15:16 -0700
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-04-05 08:36 +1000
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-04-05 00:47 +0000
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-04-04 17:09 -0500
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-04-04 23:25 +0000
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-04-04 20:16 -0500
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-04-05 00:54 -0400
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-04-01 13:06 -0400
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2011-04-01 12:28 -0700
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-04-01 23:54 -0500
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-04-02 16:06 +1100
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-04-02 00:17 -0500
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-04-02 17:17 +1100
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-04-02 03:29 -0500
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Brian Quinlan <brian@sweetapp.com> - 2011-04-02 22:14 +1100
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-04-03 00:30 -0500
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method geremy condra <debatem1@gmail.com> - 2011-04-02 22:46 -0700
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-04-03 02:17 -0500
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Brian Quinlan <brian@sweetapp.com> - 2011-04-03 16:36 +1000
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-04-02 22:14 -0400
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-04-03 00:26 -0500
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-04-04 01:38 -0400
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-04-02 09:39 +0000
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-04-03 00:09 -0500
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-03-31 11:26 -0400
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-04-01 01:44 -0500
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-04-01 15:13 -0400
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> - 2011-04-01 13:42 -0600
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-04-02 00:58 +0000
Re: Guido rethinking removal of cmp from sort method harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-04-02 00:07 -0500
csiph-web