Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.python > #11662

Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names?

Path csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!usenet.pasdenom.info!aioe.org!feeder.news-service.com!news2.euro.net!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail
Return-Path <rosuav@gmail.com>
X-Original-To python-list@python.org
Delivered-To python-list@mail.python.org
X-Spam-Status OK 0.010
X-Spam-Evidence '*H*': 0.98; '*S*': 0.00; 'warnings': 0.05; 'forcing': 0.07; 'subject:when': 0.07; 'suppress': 0.07; 'bars': 0.09; 'invocation': 0.09; 'am,': 0.12; 'def': 0.15; 'confusing.': 0.16; 'executed;': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'subject:builtin': 0.16; 'twice.': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'wed,': 0.17; 'seems': 0.20; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.22; "shouldn't": 0.23; 'aug': 0.24; "i'm": 0.27; 'language.': 0.28; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.29; '(and': 0.29; 'lines': 0.30; 'subject:?': 0.31; 'chris': 0.32; 'list': 0.32; 'too': 0.33; 'there': 0.33; 'to:addr:python- list': 0.33; 'however,': 0.34; '17,': 0.34; 'flag': 0.34; 'useful': 0.36; 'another': 0.37; 'assuming': 0.37; 'statements': 0.37; 'list,': 0.37; 'but': 0.37; 'two': 0.37; 'some': 0.38; 'received:google.com': 0.38; 'received:209.85': 0.38; 'should': 0.38; 'subject:: ': 0.39; 'user': 0.39; 'session': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'case': 0.39; "i'd": 0.40; "it's": 0.40; 'provided': 0.60; 'huge': 0.61; 'easily': 0.61; 'cost': 0.65; 'greatest': 0.73; 'been?': 0.84; 'many.': 0.84; 'preferred,': 0.93
DKIM-Signature v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=+9+187pnjtLi1jBA5u3QD+t4n3IV99wXUYQABNRhD10=; b=l19aID7ViGTpd3ESu9jc7RDsmSY12tkSbTb7UJYVLoq38dJFPfXqcB3KU2vrkS3kHq NBlmlJle9QtaDh1Dpi7gWU996zT/pfE7hsiF+QuLqRks2ZU/vP1QcnZaLzOy72UXk//N JvS7hlS1+Wo6EwOh3DdJgXn7WoY5n6SqVNMfM=
MIME-Version 1.0
In-Reply-To <slrnj4m55c.2c0s.usenet-nospam@guild.seebs.net>
References <BB13E4C4D649234F84A01F6DF64BB87F076AD0CE@ccs-ex01.coldstorage.com> <mailman.22.1313446504.27778.python-list@python.org> <4e49c89a$0$30001$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <mailman.34.1313464992.27778.python-list@python.org> <4e49fcd7$0$29974$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <2A3EB048-1F10-46E8-973F-9BBD303E7B9F@semanchuk.com> <4E4A8F94.50706@stoneleaf.us> <C226EE11-3BFA-4774-A868-7D03105D5ED3@semanchuk.com> <mailman.77.1313510619.27778.python-list@python.org> <slrnj4l94l.1pqc.usenet-nospam@guild.seebs.net> <mailman.88.1313515613.27778.python-list@python.org> <slrnj4lf99.1uqu.usenet-nospam@guild.seebs.net> <mailman.102.1313537709.27778.python-list@python.org> <slrnj4m0g0.29j9.usenet-nospam@guild.seebs.net> <mailman.103.1313539356.27778.python-list@python.org> <slrnj4m55c.2c0s.usenet-nospam@guild.seebs.net>
Date Wed, 17 Aug 2011 08:27:44 +0100
Subject Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names?
From Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
To python-list@python.org
Content-Type text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
X-BeenThere python-list@python.org
X-Mailman-Version 2.1.12
Precedence list
List-Id General discussion list for the Python programming language <python-list.python.org>
List-Unsubscribe <http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list>
List-Post <mailto:python-list@python.org>
List-Help <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=subscribe>
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Message-ID <mailman.119.1313566067.27778.python-list@python.org> (permalink)
Lines 37
NNTP-Posting-Host 2001:888:2000:d::a6
X-Trace 1313566067 news.xs4all.nl 23934 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:60984
X-Complaints-To abuse@xs4all.nl
Xref x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.python:11662

Show key headers only | View raw

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 2:35 AM, Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> wrote:
> On 2011-08-17, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:
>> It mightn't be very significant, but there'd still be some cost.
>> However, IMHO the greatest cost is the spamminess; forcing the user to
>> deal with lines and lines of warnings is not a useful way to design a
>> language.
>
> Lines and lines?
>
> I'd say if it's to be allowed to shadow built-ins (and I'm not sure that's
> a good thing at all), you'd still be looking at one warning per shadowing,
> which shouldn't be too many.

One warning per shadowing. Okay.

def foo(list):
   """Foo's the list provided and returns True on success or False on
failure."""

def bar(list):
    """Counts the number of bars in the list, assuming it to be made
of music."""
    if not foo(list): return

You call foo() once and bar() twice. How many shadowings have there
been? How many warnings do you get?

A simple implementation would give five warnings for this case - once
for each invocation that shadows a builtin. Another simple
implementation would give two warnings, at the time that the def
statements are executed; this is preferred, but it's still two
warnings, and if you have a huge set of functions that do this, that
can easily be "lines and lines" of warnings. Or should it set a flag
and say "I've already warned this session about shadowing 'list', so
suppress all others"? That seems confusing.

ChrisA

Back to comp.lang.python | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-15 23:15 +0100
  Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-16 11:32 +1000
    Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Philip Semanchuk <philip@semanchuk.com> - 2011-08-15 23:23 -0400
      Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-16 15:15 +1000
        Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Philip Semanchuk <philip@semanchuk.com> - 2011-08-16 10:13 -0400
          Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-08-16 08:44 -0700
            Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2011-08-16 12:23 -0500
        Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-16 16:12 +0100
        Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2011-08-16 08:41 -0700
          Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-16 17:11 +0000
            Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2011-08-16 10:48 -0700
            Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2011-08-16 13:34 -0500
        Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Philip Semanchuk <philip@semanchuk.com> - 2011-08-16 11:31 -0400
        Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Philip Semanchuk <philip@semanchuk.com> - 2011-08-16 11:38 -0400
        Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2011-08-16 09:19 -0700
          Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-16 17:11 +0000
            Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2011-08-16 10:43 -0700
              Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-16 18:56 +0000
                Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-08-16 19:32 -0400
                Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-16 23:49 +0000
                Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-17 01:02 +0100
                Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-17 01:35 +0000
                Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-17 08:27 +0100
                Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-17 16:33 +0000
                Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-08-16 22:10 -0400
            Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-16 19:23 +0100
        Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2011-08-16 11:10 -0500
        Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Philip Semanchuk <philip@semanchuk.com> - 2011-08-16 12:32 -0400
          Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-17 11:29 +1000
            Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Philip Semanchuk <philip@semanchuk.com> - 2011-08-16 22:16 -0400
        Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2011-08-16 10:07 -0700
        Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-16 17:11 +0000
          Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-17 10:58 +1000
            Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-17 03:17 +0000
              Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-17 18:15 +1000
                Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-17 16:33 +0000
                Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2011-08-17 10:36 -0700
                Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-17 17:36 +0000
                Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2011-08-17 11:13 -0700
                Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-17 18:09 +0000
                Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-17 18:42 +0100
                Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-17 17:38 +0000
                Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-17 19:02 +0100
                Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-08-18 10:36 +1000
            Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-17 08:34 +0100
        RE: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? "Gerrat Rickert" <grickert@coldstorage.com> - 2011-08-16 13:15 -0400
        Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-08-16 19:29 -0400
        Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Philip Semanchuk <philip@semanchuk.com> - 2011-08-16 20:18 -0400
        Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-08-16 22:15 -0400
        Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Philip Semanchuk <philip@semanchuk.com> - 2011-08-16 22:51 -0400
        RE: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? "Gerrat Rickert" <grickert@coldstorage.com> - 2011-08-17 09:30 -0400
    Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-08-16 09:16 +0100
  Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Chris Torek <nospam@torek.net> - 2011-08-31 21:30 +0000
    Re: Why no warnings when re-assigning builtin names? Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-31 21:57 +0000

csiph-web