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Groups > comp.lang.python > #62214
| From | Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.python |
| Subject | Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language |
| Date | 2013-12-17 16:59 +0000 |
| Organization | PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC |
| Message-ID | <l8pvsl$60h$1@reader1.panix.com> (permalink) |
| References | (3 earlier) <20131216213225.2006b30246e3a08ee241a191@gmx.net> <mailman.4243.1387240110.18130.python-list@python.org> <e0d6b728-fbec-41a6-9c6b-250528998a28@googlegroups.com> <mailman.4276.1387278755.18130.python-list@python.org> <20131217165144.39bf9ba1cd4e4f27a96893ca@gmx.net> |
On 2013-12-17, Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> wrote:
>> I was also taught C as an undergrad but having already learned Java, C
>> and C++ before arriving at University I found the C course very easy
>> so my own experience is not representative. Many of the other students
>> at that time found the course too hard and just cheated on all the
>> assignments (I remember one students offering to fix/finish anyone's
>> assignment in exchange for a bottle of cider!).
>
> The problem with the C class wasn't that it was "hard". I had passed my
> Pascal class, which taught nearly exactly the same issues with
> "straight A"s before (without ever having writeen any source code ever
> before). And by standard cognitive testing standards, I'm not exactly
> considered to be an idiot.
I agree that C is a awful pedagogical language. When I was in
university, the first language for Computer Science or Computer
Engineering students was Pascal. After that, there were classes that
surveyed Prolog, SNOBOL, LISP, Modula, APL, FORTRAN, COBOL, etc. If
you were an "other" engineering/science major, you learned FORTRAN
first (and last). I think there may also have been some business
types who were taught BASIC.
C wasn't taught at all. When I graduated and started doing real-time
embedded firmware, the choices were Generally C or Pascal. The first
projects I did were in Pascal, but I learned C because the development
host was a PDP-11 running Unix and I needed to write some small (non
embedded) utilities. Today, all my embedded work is in C. Python
fell out of style for some reason, but (with a few extensions) it was
a fine language for embedded work as well.
I've always thought C was a great language for low-level, bare-metal,
embedded stuff -- but teaching it to first or second year computer
science students is just insane. C has a certain minimalist
orthogonality that I have always found pleasing. [People who smile
wistfully when they think about the PDP-11 instruction word layouts
probably know what I mean.]
But, exposure to C should wait until you have a firm grasp of basic
algorithms and data structures and are proficient in assembly language
for a couple different architectures. Ideally, you should also have
written at least one functioning compiler before learning C as well.
--
Grant Edwards grant.b.edwards Yow! Maybe we could paint
at GOLDIE HAWN a rich PRUSSIAN
gmail.com BLUE --
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Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-12-09 12:23 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-09 05:54 -0800
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-09 08:57 -0800
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language William Ray Wing <wrw@mac.com> - 2013-12-09 12:55 -0500
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2013-12-10 18:25 +1300
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-10 16:55 +1100
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2013-12-11 10:38 +1300
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-12-10 20:35 -0500
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-12-11 02:16 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2013-12-11 07:08 -0500
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-12-11 15:05 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-12-16 16:47 -0800
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-12-16 20:06 -0500
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-17 01:25 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-17 12:27 +1100
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2013-12-16 20:32 -0500
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language "Cousin Stanley" <cousinstanley@gmail.com> - 2013-12-17 07:32 -0700
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2013-12-17 12:27 -0500
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-12-11 15:46 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language "Rhodri James" <rhodri@wildebst.demon.co.uk> - 2013-12-09 23:32 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-12-09 18:42 -0500
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language "Rhodri James" <rhodri@wildebst.demon.co.uk> - 2013-12-10 00:00 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-12-09 20:56 -0500
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2013-12-12 21:36 +0100
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-13 08:12 +1100
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2013-12-16 21:32 +0100
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language "Rhodri James" <rhodri@wildebst.org.uk> - 2013-12-16 23:01 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-12-16 19:28 -0500
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-16 16:39 -0800
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-17 11:44 +1100
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-16 17:58 -0800
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-12-17 02:33 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-12-16 20:41 -0800
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-12-17 14:51 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-12-17 09:54 -0500
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-17 15:07 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-12-17 15:24 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-17 15:35 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2013-12-17 11:21 -0500
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-17 08:56 -0800
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-17 10:03 -0800
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-18 05:20 +1100
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-12-17 13:39 -0500
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language dkcombs@panix.com (David Combs) - 2014-01-29 03:17 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-12-17 11:12 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-12-17 12:18 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2013-12-17 16:51 +0100
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-12-17 16:59 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2013-12-17 12:18 -0500
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-17 17:24 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-17 17:44 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-12-17 19:38 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-12-17 19:39 -0500
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-12-18 18:05 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-18 18:17 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-12-18 20:49 -0500
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-19 02:05 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2013-12-19 15:54 +0100
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-12-18 20:40 -0500
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-18 20:05 -0800
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-12-18 23:16 -0500
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-19 15:26 +1100
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-18 20:48 -0800
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-19 09:14 -0800
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@gmail.com> - 2013-12-18 22:03 -0800
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2013-12-19 19:40 +1300
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-12-17 20:20 -0500
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-12-17 17:09 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-12-17 19:32 -0500
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-12-18 01:33 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-18 13:11 +1100
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-12-18 08:22 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-18 19:32 +1100
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming
language Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2013-12-18 07:53 -0500
Re: Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-19 01:55 +1100
Re: Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language "Rhodri James" <rhodri@wildebst.org.uk> - 2013-12-19 00:10 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-12-18 15:17 +0000
Re: Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first
programming language Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2013-12-18 15:52 -0500
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2013-12-19 19:41 +1300
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming
language Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2013-12-19 07:06 -0500
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-12-18 18:00 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-18 18:07 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-12-18 20:56 -0500
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2013-12-19 18:39 +1300
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-12-19 00:56 -0500
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Paul Smith <paul@mad-scientist.net> - 2013-12-17 22:49 -0500
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-12-18 08:18 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-18 19:51 +1100
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-12-19 16:20 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-20 04:02 +1100
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2013-12-18 07:23 -0800
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-18 08:53 -0800
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-12-18 19:29 -0500
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-12-19 16:20 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-18 17:15 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-12-19 17:12 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-20 04:28 +1100
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-12-19 18:40 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-20 07:18 +1100
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-12-19 19:38 -0500
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language "Rhodri James" <rhodri@wildebst.org.uk> - 2013-12-20 00:45 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-12-20 02:16 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-12-20 18:58 -0500
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-12-20 21:04 -0500
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-12-27 14:35 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-12-18 17:33 -0500
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-12-19 17:06 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-20 04:18 +1100
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-12-19 00:21 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-12-18 07:53 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2013-12-17 18:33 -0800
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-18 14:01 +1100
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2013-12-17 19:12 -0800
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-18 14:24 +1100
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language "Rhodri James" <rhodri@wildebst.org.uk> - 2013-12-19 00:49 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-19 11:54 +1100
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-18 20:29 -0800
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-19 04:50 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-18 21:09 -0800
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-19 05:36 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-12-19 21:31 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-12-19 19:30 -0500
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-12-18 01:18 -0800
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-12-18 10:06 +0000
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-18 01:10 +1100
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2013-12-17 16:22 +0100
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2013-12-19 16:14 +0100
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2013-12-20 09:42 +1300
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-12-20 07:51 +1100
Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language dkcombs@panix.com (David Combs) - 2014-01-29 03:09 +0000
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