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Re: threading

From Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net>
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Subject Re: threading
Date 2014-04-08 15:10 +0300
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <87d2gsowck.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> (permalink)
References <877g70wg8p.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <mailman.9008.1396954078.18130.python-list@python.org>

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Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com>:

> The problem here is the belief that "thread-safety cannot be
> abstracted out". It can. The solution is to share nothing and send
> messages through queues. If you start to use mutexes and conditions
> all over your code, you might shoot yourself in the foot, eventually.

Queues are fine if you hermetically insulate your objects. IOW, you
group your objects in single-threaded pseudoprocesses that don't make
any direct method calls to each other. If you do that, you might as well
use real processes. That way, you can even naturally enforce your
insulation assumption against accidents.

In "normal" multithreaded code, different object methods are called from
different threads. And, as you say, you *will* shoot yourself in the
foot.

Now, even in your queued thread world, you will suffer from the fact
that the naive thread programmer uses blocking function calls (as they
have been taught). Imagine, for example, a network outage in the middle
of a database call. The thread might not take a peek at its input queue
during the stuck I/O call and the application cannot abort the
operation. The solution is to use an asyncio main loop and nonblocking
I/O in each of your insulated threads...


Marko

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Re: threading Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-04-07 13:05 +1000
  Re: threading Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-04-06 23:48 -0400
    Re: threading Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-07 13:56 +1000
      Re: threading Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-04-07 08:26 -0400
        Re: threading Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-07 22:34 +1000
          Re: threading Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-04-07 09:22 -0400
            Re: threading Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-04-07 14:41 +0100
            Re: threading Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-04-07 16:49 +0300
              Re: threading Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-08 00:27 +1000
                Re: threading Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-04-07 17:51 +0300
                Re: threading Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-08 01:12 +1000
            Re: threading Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-08 00:24 +1000
      Re: threading Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-04-08 18:09 -0700
        Re: threading "Neil D. Cerutti" <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2014-04-09 09:50 -0400
          Re: threading Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-04-09 08:51 -0700
            Re: threading MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-04-09 18:47 +0100
              Re: threading Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-04-10 11:35 +1200
                Re: threading Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-04-09 19:53 -0400
                Re: threading Andrew Berg <robotsondrugs@gmail.com> - 2014-04-09 19:02 -0500
                Re: threading Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-04-10 02:43 +0000
                Re: threading Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-10 13:08 +1000
                Re: threading Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-04-10 09:23 +0100
                Re: threading Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-10 19:11 +1000
            Re: threading Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-10 04:00 +1000
            Re: threading Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-04-10 03:44 +0000
              Re: threading Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-10 13:54 +1000
    Re: threading Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-04-07 15:22 +1000
    Re: threading Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2014-04-08 11:09 -0700
    Re: threading Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-04-08 21:41 +0200
      Re: threading Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-04-08 20:30 +0000
        Re: threading Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-04-09 00:32 +0200
          Re: threading Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-04-08 19:17 -0700
  Re: threading Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-04-07 08:10 +0300
    Re: threading Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-06 22:39 -0700
      Re: threading Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-04-07 08:46 +0300
      Re: threading Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-04-07 19:47 -0400
        Re: threading Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-04-08 08:19 +0300
          Re: threading Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-04-08 10:47 +0000
            Re: threading Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-04-08 15:10 +0300
              Re: threading Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-04-08 16:37 +0000
                Re: threading Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-04-08 20:17 +0300
            Re: threading Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-04-08 09:19 -0400
              Re: threading Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-04-08 15:44 +0000
                Re: threading Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-08 09:38 -0700
                Re: threading Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-04-09 14:42 +0100
          Re: threading "Frank Millman" <frank@chagford.com> - 2014-04-09 15:23 +0200
            Re: threading Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-04-09 16:55 +0300
              Re: threading "Frank Millman" <frank@chagford.com> - 2014-04-09 16:46 +0200
                Re: threading Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-04-09 20:31 +0300
                Re: threading Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-10 03:52 +1000
                Re: threading Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-04-10 08:29 -0500
                Re: threading Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-04-09 19:20 +0000
          Re: threading Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-09 23:47 +1000
            Re: threading Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-04-09 10:44 -0400
          Re: threading "Frank Millman" <frank@chagford.com> - 2014-04-09 16:30 +0200
            Re: threading Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-04-09 10:52 -0400
              Re: threading Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-04-10 11:19 +1200
            Re: threading Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-04-09 19:48 +0300
          Re: threading Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-10 00:44 +1000
          Re: threading Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-04-09 15:29 +0000
          Re: threading Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-04-09 12:14 -0400
          Re: threading Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-10 02:25 +1000
          Re: threading Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-04-09 16:32 +0000
          Re: threading Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-04-09 19:44 -0400
          Re: threading Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-10 11:05 +1000
          Re: threading "Frank Millman" <frank@chagford.com> - 2014-04-10 11:17 +0200
          Re: threading Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-10 19:40 +1000
          Re: threading "Frank Millman" <frank@chagford.com> - 2014-04-10 13:10 +0200
            Re: threading Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-04-10 14:43 +0300
              Re: threading Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-04-10 08:56 -0400
              Re: threading Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-04-10 15:24 +0000
                Re: threading Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-04-10 19:20 +0300
              Re: threading Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-11 01:32 +1000
                Re: threading Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-04-10 19:25 +0300
                Re: threading Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-11 03:08 +1000
                Re: threading Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-04-10 11:14 -0700
                Re: threading Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-04-10 22:44 +0300
                Re: threading Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-04-10 13:21 -0700
                Re: threading Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-04-10 23:44 +0300
                Re: threading Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-04-10 22:15 -0700
                Re: threading Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-04-10 23:50 -0700
                Re: threading Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-04-11 18:36 +0300
                Re: threading Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-12 01:53 +1000
                Re: threading Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-04-11 16:58 +0100
                Re: threading Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-04-11 11:54 -0700
                Re: threading Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-04-11 22:27 +0300
                Re: threading Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-04-11 01:51 +0200
                Re: threading Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-04-11 05:35 +0000
                Re: threading Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-04-11 09:26 +0000
                Re: threading Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-04-11 08:36 -0400
                Re: threading Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-04-11 16:18 +0000
                Re: threading Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-04-11 02:21 +0200
                Re: threading Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-04-10 20:23 -0400
          Re: threading Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-10 21:19 +1000
      Re: threading Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-04-08 02:06 +0000
        Re: threading alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-04-08 11:07 +0000
          Re: threading Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-04-08 09:13 -0400
            Re: threading Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-08 23:23 +1000
              Re: threading alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-04-08 14:15 +0000
                Re: threading Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-04-08 16:06 +0000
            Re: threading Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-04-08 15:40 +0000
              Re: threading Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-08 09:46 -0700
                Re: threading Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-09 02:46 +1000
                Re: threading Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-04-08 17:17 +0000
          Re: threading Sturla Molden <sturla.molden@gmail.com> - 2014-04-08 15:19 +0000

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