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Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs?

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On Feb 28, 12:05 pm, Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohn...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 27, 2013 5:25:25 PM UTC-6, alex23 wrote:
> > Ranting on public forums is nothing but posturing at best, and at
> > worst an attempt to blackmail-by-shame people into doing something for
> > you. Same goes for calls for "the community" to "fix" things.
>
> What you call ranting is most times people venting frustrations
> BECAUSE they want to help, but nobody is allowing them to be a
> contributing member of the community.

You claim that no one has time to write a bug report. I point out that
if they can spend the time ranting about the bug, then they have the
time. You then proceed to try and reframe the discussion to something
else entirely.

Venting frustrations isn't contributing. If someone is confused about
how to contribute, they could just *ask*, as people _regularly_ do
here, and are always given reasonable direction how to do so.

> When someone tries to offer help, in the form of constructive criticism, and then somebody snaps at them, they then loose the will to help. I myself would love to contribute my "quite awesome" re-write of the Tkinter GUI library, but due to the friction i've encountered on this list, i am resigned to keep it to myself (at least for the time being). Which is sad because python (and python programmers) could greatly benefit from a polished Tkinter.

Insisting your personal project is shoved into the standard library
isn't helping. Write a PEP. Put the code up on PyPI. There's a well-
established path for progressing code from "look what I done make!"
into something that is considered part of Python.

> Alex i can assure you, there DOES exist a very harsh attitude to outside opinions within this community.

Don't extend this list's reaction to you and your particular blend of
idiocy to the general response to opinions.

> Case in point: Why should ANYBODY need to voice Python problems on various blogs around the web?

The two main reasons seem to be: vanity, and an unwillingness to
listen to criticism.

> This is why i will AGAIN mention my PyWarts list (Hypothetical at this point).

"Hypothetical" sums up pretty much all of your supposed contributions
to date.

> We need an official place for the many problems of Python to be discussed in a fair and open manner. A place that will be open to noobs and frequented by pythonisitas (including the BDFL himself!)

Starting a new forum just fragments the discussion even further.

> ============================================================
>  Path of a Python Issue
> ============================================================
> 1. All perceived problems with python get voiced on the PyWarts list
> 2. After considerable discussion, and if we can widdle the problem down to a tangible bug, then a bug gets opened on the tracker.
> 3. Hopefully the bug will be resolved and closed ASAP.

Ah, so it's your way or no way, yet again.

THERE ALREADY EXISTS A PATH FOR DEALING WITH ISSUES.

> This is a linear path of inclusion that will prompt people to participate.

Right, until someone doesn't get the response they want and they
agitate for this to happen on Stackoverflow, or IRC, or their brand
new forum they've set up. You're not the first person to want to
impose your own brand of tyranny on the process.

> You and i both know we need more people working at the tracker

No one is going to be "working at the tracker", because no one is
*paid* to do such "work". People can participate by contributing, or
they can choose not to. The latter should also STFU if they're not
willing to contribute, but this seems to be a position you're unable
or unwilling to understand.

> Neither this community nor this language can survive without a steady adoption of new members.

The current process is not doing anything like the damage to the
uptake of Python that you constantly claim it is, but you do love your
hyperbole.

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Thread

Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-26 12:54 +0000
  Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-27 00:20 +1100
    Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-02-26 08:56 -0500
      Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-27 01:26 +1100
        Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-26 15:26 +0000
      Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2013-02-26 17:48 +0000
        Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-27 03:02 +0000
  Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Zero Piraeus <schesis@gmail.com> - 2013-02-26 10:15 -0400
  Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2013-02-26 09:15 -0500
  Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? notbob <notbob@nothome.com> - 2013-02-26 16:19 +0000
    Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2013-02-26 10:55 -0600
      Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? notbob <notbob@nothome.com> - 2013-02-26 17:54 +0000
        Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2013-02-26 12:10 -0600
          Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? notbob <notbob@nothome.com> - 2013-02-26 18:41 +0000
    Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? nn <pruebauno@latinmail.com> - 2013-02-26 11:00 -0800
      Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? emile <emile@fenx.com> - 2013-02-26 16:36 -0800
  Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? "Adam W." <AWasilenko@gmail.com> - 2013-02-26 08:38 -0800
    Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2013-02-26 13:52 -0500
    Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-02-26 20:48 -0500
      Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-26 19:13 -0800
        Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-02-27 15:25 -0800
          Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-27 18:05 -0800
            Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-02-27 21:21 -0500
            Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-28 13:44 +1100
              Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-27 19:43 -0800
                Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? llanitedave <llanitedave@veawb.coop> - 2013-02-27 20:04 -0800
                Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-02-27 20:21 -0800
            Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-02-27 20:18 -0800
              Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-27 20:53 -0800
                Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-02-27 21:57 -0800
                Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-28 17:31 +1100
                Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-28 10:28 -0800
                Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-03-01 07:41 +1100
                Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-02-28 16:05 -0800
                Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Jake Angulo <jake.angulo@gmail.com> - 2013-03-04 10:47 +1100
          Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Bob Hanson <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-03-05 17:43 -0800
            Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-03-06 03:12 +0000
              Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Bob Hanson <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-03-08 19:10 -0800
          Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Bob Hanson <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-03-05 17:50 -0800
          Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Bob Hanson <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-03-05 17:51 -0800
            Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-03-06 03:38 +0000
              Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Bob Hanson <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-03-08 19:31 -0800
                Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-03-09 14:45 +1100
            Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? rh <richard_hubbe11@lavabit.com> - 2013-03-06 11:48 -0800
            Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-03-06 18:50 -0500
              Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-03-06 16:47 -0800
                Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-03-06 17:06 -0800
                Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Chris Kaynor <ckaynor@zindagigames.com> - 2013-03-06 17:28 -0800
                Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-03-06 17:31 -0800
                Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-03-06 18:28 -0800
                Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-03-06 18:57 -0800
                Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-03-06 19:12 -0800
                Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-03-06 19:48 -0800
                Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-03-07 13:16 +1100
                Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? "Michael Ross" <gmx@ross.cx> - 2013-03-07 03:04 +0100
                Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-03-06 20:52 -0500
                Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-03-06 18:41 -0800
              Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Bob Hanson <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-03-08 20:12 -0800
                Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-03-09 01:22 -0500
        Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-02-27 20:26 -0500
  Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-02-26 13:43 -0500
    Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-02-27 17:17 -0800
      Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-02-28 01:39 +0000
      Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-02-27 21:27 -0500
  Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Mitya Sirenef <msirenef@lightbird.net> - 2013-02-26 13:58 -0500
  Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? rh <richard_hubbe11@lavabit.com> - 2013-02-26 12:18 -0800
  Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Rotwang <sg552@hotmail.co.uk> - 2013-02-26 21:26 +0000
    Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Jason Swails <jason.swails@gmail.com> - 2013-02-26 17:17 -0500
      Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-26 17:22 -0800
      Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-26 17:22 -0800
  Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com> - 2013-02-26 17:15 -0800
  Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-27 12:31 +1100
  Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-02-26 21:00 -0500
  Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? rh <richard_hubbe11@lavabit.com> - 2013-02-26 18:06 -0800
  Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Mitya Sirenef <msirenef@lightbird.net> - 2013-02-26 22:09 -0500
  Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Mitya Sirenef <msirenef@lightbird.net> - 2013-02-26 23:45 -0500
  Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-02-27 09:47 +0000
  Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Antoine Pitrou <solipsis@pitrou.net> - 2013-02-27 13:17 +0000
  Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Antoine Pitrou <solipsis@pitrou.net> - 2013-02-27 13:22 +0000
    Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-02-27 14:59 -0800
  Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Mitya Sirenef <msirenef@lightbird.net> - 2013-02-27 17:43 -0500
  Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-02-27 15:20 -0800
    Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-02-28 01:05 +0000
      Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-02-27 21:36 -0800
  Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? llanitedave <llanitedave@veawb.coop> - 2013-02-27 18:26 -0800
  Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Jason Friedman <jsf80238@gmail.com> - 2013-02-27 21:59 -0700
  Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-02-28 16:21 +1100
  Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? << No! Tony the Tiger <tony@tiger.invalid> - 2013-03-03 16:28 -0600
  Re: Do you feel bad because of the Python docs? rh <richard_hubbe11@lavabit.com> - 2013-03-04 08:59 -0800

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