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Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM)

From Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Newsgroups comp.lang.misc
Subject Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM)
Date 2025-12-07 12:59 +0100
Organization PointedEars Software (PES)
Message-ID <10h3q6q$7ig0$1@gwaiyur.mb-net.net> (permalink)
References (7 earlier) <10gon9o$2jg1p$1@gwaiyur.mb-net.net> <mpcoupF147lU1@mid.individual.net> <10gridl$2f6kr$1@dont-email.me> <10h1k31$108a$1@gwaiyur.mb-net.net> <10h1nj9$1o41r$1@dont-email.me>

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Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> On 2025-12-06 17:02, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Janis Papanagnou wrote:
>>> On 2025-12-04 07:50, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>> Am Mittwoch000003, 03.12.2025 um 08:02 schrieb Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn:
>>>>> Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>>>> Did you know, that 'von [Neumann] architecture'
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>> was actually invented and patented by Konrad Zuse in Germany in the
>>>>>> early 1930th?
>>>>>
>>>>> NOT true.  Von Neumann's architecture "was based on the work of J.
>>>>> Presper Eckert and John Mauchly, inventors of ENIAC and its successor,
>>>>> EDVAC."
>>>>>
>>>>> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuse_Z3
>>>>
>>>> Didn't you know, that 1937 was much earlier than the Eniac in 1945?
>>>
>>> That's the date of the Z1, isn't it? - The Z3 came later, 1941.
>>
>> Twice wrong (according to the Wikipedia articles about them).
> 
> Wikipedia confirms both of my dates:
> 
> "Die Z3 war einer der ersten funktionsfähigen Digitalrechner weltweit
>   und wurde am 12. Mai 1941 von Konrad Zuse in seiner Werkstatt in der
>   Methfesselstraße 7 in Berlin-Kreuzberg vorgestellt."
> 
> "Die Z1 war ein mechanischer Rechner von Konrad Zuse aus dem Jahre
>   1937."

It is more complicated than that: It took several years from design to
the completion of each of these computers.  Read the list and follow the
references that I gave.

>>> While concepts of modern computers where already exiting in Z1
>>> the first reliably running computer system was the Z3, AFAIK.
>>
>> It was a *digital* computer, but NOT the first *electronic* computer.
> 
> That was not the criterion that was part of the post I was replying to.

Yes, it was.  The claim was that the "von Neumann architecture" that ENIAC
was based on was based on the Z3, ignoring that ENIAC and the Z3 did not
even use the same technology: While both were digital computers, one of them
(the Z3) was an *electromechanical* computer and the other (ENIAC) was an
*electronic* one.

The two computers also differed in operation (the original Z3 was never put
into everyday operation, and was destroyed during an Allied bombardment of
Berlin in 1943; while ENIAC was in continuous operation from 1945 to 1955)
and capabilities (the Z3 lacked conditional branching, so was not strictly
Turing-complete; ENIAC was).

Apples and oranges.

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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Thread

Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-12-04 07:50 +0100
  Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-12-04 09:57 +0100
    Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2025-12-06 17:02 +0100
      Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-12-06 18:02 +0100
        Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2025-12-07 12:59 +0100
      Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-12-07 10:31 +0100
        Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2025-12-07 13:00 +0100
    Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-12-07 10:22 +0100
      Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2025-12-07 10:39 +0100
      Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2025-12-07 10:46 +0100
        Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-12-08 08:10 +0100
          Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2025-12-08 08:44 +0100
          Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-12-08 08:49 +0100
      Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-12-07 11:42 +0100
        Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-12-07 16:26 +0200
          Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-12-08 04:25 +0100
            Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2025-12-08 08:51 +0100
            Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-12-08 13:58 +0200
            Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-12-09 09:15 +0100
          Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-20 04:48 +0000
            Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-12-21 00:07 +0000
              Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2025-12-21 10:37 +0000
                Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-21 22:20 +0000
                Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-12-22 00:56 +0200
                Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-12-22 13:24 +0100
              Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-21 22:23 +0000
                Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-12-22 17:55 +0000
                Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-22 21:20 +0000
        Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-12-08 08:21 +0100
          Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-12-08 09:06 +0100
            Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-12-09 09:19 +0100
            Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-12-09 11:43 -0800
              Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-12-10 08:19 +0100
                Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2025-12-10 09:56 +0100
                Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-12-10 10:01 -0800
                Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-12-11 09:02 +0100
                Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-12-11 08:48 -0800
                Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2025-12-12 01:58 +0100
                Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-12-11 20:45 -0800
                Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-12-11 23:07 -0800
                Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-12-12 00:49 -0800
                Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-12-14 14:27 +0100
                Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-12-14 10:25 -0800
                Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-12-14 21:22 +0100
                Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-12-14 12:52 -0800
                I have a great idea The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-12-14 13:11 -0800
                Einstein refrigerator (was: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2025-12-15 03:00 +0100
                Re: Einstein refrigerator (was: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-12-14 19:46 -0800
                Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-12-14 10:27 -0800
                Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-12-14 10:58 -0800
                Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-12-15 07:50 +0100
                Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-12-15 14:05 +0100
                Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-12-16 08:44 +0100
                Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-12-16 22:58 +0100
                Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-12-17 08:50 +0100
                Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-12-17 14:24 +0100
                Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-12-18 22:13 -0800
                Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-12-19 12:02 -0800
                Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2025-12-17 18:24 +0100
                Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-18 06:49 +0000
  Re: parallel random-access machine (parallel RAM or PRAM) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2025-12-06 05:30 +0100

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