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Re: Removing influences from a language

From Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.misc
Subject Re: Removing influences from a language
Date 2025-11-11 12:59 +0100
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <10ev8ev$n1cb$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (9 earlier) <10ere59$3ljha$2@dont-email.me> <10erng6$3o93c$1@dont-email.me> <10es6su$3rf3r$2@dont-email.me> <10esgjv$3u6qk$1@dont-email.me> <10esoec$j6i$1@dont-email.me>

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On 10.11.2025 14:13, David Brown wrote:
> On 10/11/2025 12:00, bart wrote:
>> On 10/11/2025 08:14, David Brown wrote:
>>>
>>> [ Trailing commas ]
> 
> I haven't followed all the posts there (since I don't know Algol), so I
> can't comment on that.

Disclaimer: I also haven't followed all the posts, specifically skipped
the posts were just pointless repetitions took place; at some point it
makes no sense to answer (or even read in the first place) those types
of post any more.

>> [...]
> 
> That is what is meant by "trailing commas".  What else might it mean?
> 
> enum colours = {
>     red,
>     green,
>     blue,
>     purple,
>     pale_fushia_with_a_hint_of_orange,
> };
> 
>> I was looking at ways to eliminate those, as semicolons are in many
>> languages, or at least made optional.
> 
> How did we get back to semicolons here? 

(In case of that poster most probably by obsession.)

> You said they were "solved". (I
> don't know what that means, since I don't know why you think they are a
> problem in the first place, but that's for a different branch of the
> thread.)  We are talking here about trailing commas in lists.

Yes, your case was obvious [to me]; it's the most common case in many
programming languages.

Since you mentioned Algol 68 above (and the relation to semicolons)
I'd like to show one feature that illustrates an existing relation.

In some recent post I had mentioned the semicolon as sequencing token
and that in Algol 68 there's also a collateral token, the comma. E.g.

    BEGIN
        INT n := 0, SEMA consume = LEVEL 0, produce = LEVEL 3;
        PAR BEGIN
            # produce one #
            DO  DOWN produce;
                print (n +:= 1);
                UP consume
            OD,
            # consume one #
            DO  DOWN consume;
                print (n -:= 1);
                UP produce
            OD,
            # consume one #
            DO  DOWN consume;
                print (n -:= 1);
                UP produce
            OD
        END
    END

Here you see a simple sample to illustrate parallel processing ('PAR'),
but the possibility of collateral statements is not restricted to such
parallel processing in Algol 68; you can apply it where it fits, and
the compiler can work with that semantics.

A trailing comma makes no sense if there's nothing to execute after
the third parallel instance (like here with comma in the collateral
case it's the same with semicolons in the sequenced case).

Algol 68's syntax is very coherent as we can see. It's a conceptual
general principle, and while obvious above, in case of the parallel
executed program parts, it can generally be applied, or also replaced
by sequenced building blocks (comma -> semicolon), or vice versa.

(That's BTW another instance where folks that focus on lexical and
syntax details (not you!) miss the whole picture of language design
decisions.)

Janis

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Thread

Removing influences from a language bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-08 16:16 +0000
  Re: Removing influences from a language Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-09 12:30 +0200
    Re: Removing influences from a language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-11-09 12:22 +0100
      Re: Removing influences from a language "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2025-11-09 14:20 +0100
      Re: Removing influences from a language bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-09 14:09 +0000
        Re: Removing influences from a language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-11-09 15:40 +0100
          Re: Removing influences from a language bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-09 15:17 +0000
            Re: Removing influences from a language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-11-09 17:42 +0100
              Re: Removing influences from a language bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-09 20:07 +0000
              Re: Removing influences from a language Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-02-02 02:32 +0000
            Re: Removing influences from a language Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-09 23:35 +0000
              Re: Removing influences from a language bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-10 00:56 +0000
                Re: Removing influences from a language Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-10 01:02 +0000
                Re: Removing influences from a language bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-10 01:12 +0000
                Re: Removing influences from a language Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-10 03:51 +0000
                Re: Removing influences from a language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-11-10 09:14 +0100
                Re: Removing influences from a language bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-10 11:00 +0000
                Re: Removing influences from a language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-11-10 14:13 +0100
                Re: Removing influences from a language bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-10 16:20 +0000
                Re: Removing influences from a language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-11-10 17:33 +0100
                Re: Removing influences from a language bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-10 21:01 +0000
                Re: Removing influences from a language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-11-11 12:33 +0100
                Re: Removing influences from a language Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-02-02 03:13 +0000
                Re: Removing influences from a language Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-11 12:59 +0100
                Re: Removing influences from a language bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-11 15:08 +0000
                Re: Removing influences from a language Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-11 20:44 +0000
                Re: Removing influences from a language bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-11 23:16 +0000
                Re: Removing influences from a language Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-02-02 03:09 +0000
                Re: Removing influences from a language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-02-02 11:32 +0100
                Re: Removing influences from a language Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-02-02 16:32 +0100
                Re: Removing influences from a language Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-02-08 15:52 +0000
                Re: Removing influences from a language Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-02-08 17:51 +0100
                Re: Removing influences from a language Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-02-09 16:58 +0000
                Re: Removing influences from a language ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-02-09 18:01 +0000
                Re: Removing influences from a language Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-02-09 23:44 +0000
                Re: Removing influences from a language Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-10 06:41 +0000
                Re: Removing influences from a language Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-02-10 14:40 +0000
                Re: Removing influences from a language Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-02-09 23:40 +0000
                Re: Removing influences from a language Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-02-05 19:49 +0000
                Re: Removing influences from a language ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-02-06 03:01 +0000
                Re: Removing influences from a language ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-02-11 12:07 +0000
                Re: Removing influences from a language Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-11 22:44 +0000
                Re: Removing influences from a language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-02-12 16:56 +0100
                Re: Removing influences from a language Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-02-08 11:01 +0200
                Re: Removing influences from a language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-02-08 14:37 +0100
                Re: Removing influences from a language Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-02-08 15:57 +0200
                Re: Removing influences from a language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-02-08 16:34 +0100
              Re: Removing influences from a language Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-02-02 02:39 +0000
          Re: Removing influences from a language Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-02-02 02:07 +0000
    Re: Removing influences from a language Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-09 20:59 +0000
  Re: Removing influences from a language bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-13 17:16 +0000
  Re: Removing influences from a language bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-13 22:39 +0000

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