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Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ?

From	bart <bc@freeuk.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.misc
Subject	Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ?
Date	2025-11-05 14:02 +0000
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<10efld8$ee0n$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(16 earlier) <10ed9fv$3p5mg$1@dont-email.me> <10edar4$3pbi7$1@dont-email.me> <10eddn1$3qi2g$1@dont-email.me> <10edk84$3si3d$1@dont-email.me> <10efdqg$c4pf$1@dont-email.me>

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On 05/11/2025 11:52, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> On 04.11.2025 20:30, bart wrote:
>> On 04/11/2025 17:38, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
>>> On 04.11.2025 17:49, David Brown wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [...] Here in c.l.misc, his languages are as much on-topic as Algol 68,
>>>
>>> Sure.
>>>
>>>> and I don't see a problem with comparisons.
>>>
>>> There's many problems if you try to compare well known (specified)
>>> languages with home-brewed languages. All we typically see then is
>>> examples of local specific details, thereby completely missing the
>>> whole picture. It makes no sense to compare with such languages on
>>> that level. (YMMV.)
>>
>> That would be an interesting discussion, as to why you think the
>> provenance or history of a language, and of its implementation, somehow
>> invalidates comparisons of their features, performance, and general
>> utility.
> 
> To compare languages we need to have a substantial representation
> of the compared languages. This is easy for known languages,

What is a 'known' language?

Rosetta Code has nearly a thousand languages, including some very 
obscure ones (mine's in there too!).

Obviously, /somebody/ thinks such a website that compares how you do 
some task across lots of disparate languages is worthwhile.

I can appreciate the utility of a feature, the aesthetics of otherwise 
of a syntax, the brevity or long-windedness of style, without caring 
where that language came from or whether or not it's in wide use.

Your objections seem to ne irrational.

> this
> is pointless for, e.g., irrelevant home-brewed languages;

[Indirect insult]

A language is a language, in the same way that a home-cooked meal is 
just as much a meal as one from a restaurant or mass-produced for a 
supermarket.

A language is just a means to get some task done that is better than 
some lower-level alternative.

> on a
> feature-basis alone a _language comparison_ makes no sense and a
> feature comparison makes little sense with this type of languages.

Suppose the discussion was about new module schemes, or the best way to 
implement embedding.

So, if I came up with suitable proposals, would you dismiss them out of 
hand because they came from me? Would it make any difference whether I 
had implemented them in a working language?

What would happen if you sneered at my proposals, but then those exact 
schemes appeared in a language you admired?

But, let me guess, C++'s proposals for both of these (they may even 
exist now), which always come across as an over-elaborate dog's 
breakfast to me, would automatically be fine for you?

> Someone else already observed and rightly pointed out that most
> of your objections are obviously merely your personal preferences.
Some yes, but also they are what worked best. (Eg. my current module 
scheme is my fourth.)

> After the many posts I'd have to add that it's also deliberate or
> intellectual ignorance

[Insult]

  of the (repeatedly) presented facts.

There are few facts about PL design. It's more craft than engineering.

Look at the 1000 languages on Rosetta Code; it's a zoo, because 
everyone's got a different opinion of what a language should be.

>>
>> I'd also be interested in how much your views would be driven by
>> personal animosity.
> 
> My views are generally just based on my experience and knowledges
> _on the topics_.

Hey, so are mine! But apparently yours count, and mine can be dismissed, 
even though I'm in the unusual position of devising /and implemented/ 
languages of my own.

Maybe you think that the only valid languages are huge, mainstream ones 
created by committees, and controlled by corporations.

> I'm generally trying to honestly explain - also to you - what you
> are (often obviously)

[Insult?]

> just missing. I even repeat the facts that
> you ignore. (Any "personal animosity" you may feel might likely
> stem from you ignoring of what's explained and demonstrated often
> multiple times to you. - My patience is not unlimited.)
> 
>>
>> (I'm also still waiting on that 'whole picture' thing.)
> 
> It's already been said:
> Given all the discussions that people had with you of over the past
> years, and your obvious inability

[Insult]

> to see it (or understand it when
> hinted), there's no point in wasting time repeating or summarizing
> all that for you. - Good luck with all you do!

You could just tell me anyway. Otherwise I'd be inclined to think there 
is no 'big picture'.

Or you can be honest and admit if you're just being snobbish and elitist.

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Thread

Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-01 16:00 +0100
  Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-11-01 20:54 +0000
    Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-02 07:33 +0100
      Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-02 09:50 +0100
      Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-11-02 11:10 +0000
        Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-02 11:44 +0000
          Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-02 13:12 +0100
            Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-02 13:23 +0100
          Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-11-03 00:42 +0000
            Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-03 15:03 +0000
              Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-03 16:40 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-03 17:00 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-03 21:02 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-03 20:34 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-03 22:35 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-03 23:37 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-04 07:16 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-04 11:10 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-11-04 16:46 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-04 16:17 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-04 17:26 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-11-04 17:49 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-04 18:38 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-04 19:30 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-11-04 21:04 +0100
                Homebrew languages (was: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ?) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-06 00:39 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-05 12:52 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-05 14:02 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-04 18:28 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-11-04 21:14 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-03 17:32 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-03 20:28 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-03 20:10 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-03 22:31 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-04 12:24 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-11-04 17:02 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-05 12:25 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-05 14:12 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-05 14:28 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-06 08:29 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-06 14:18 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-06 15:58 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-11-07 21:22 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-07 23:13 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-08 03:17 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-11-08 03:50 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-08 04:47 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-08 12:42 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-08 21:37 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-09 20:34 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-09 21:08 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-11-09 16:58 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-08 11:34 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-11-09 17:16 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-09 19:11 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-09 20:58 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-11-10 13:56 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-10 20:52 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-11-11 12:53 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-11 20:51 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-11-06 17:14 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-06 19:41 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-06 22:01 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-08 12:24 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-11-07 23:33 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-11-04 00:35 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-04 07:07 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-04 14:57 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-11-05 23:59 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-06 01:03 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-06 07:40 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-06 10:59 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-11-06 16:59 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-06 17:58 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-06 20:14 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-06 22:16 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-06 22:47 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-11-07 14:34 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-07 15:42 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-11-07 16:50 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-07 19:49 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-07 20:01 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-11-08 00:26 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-08 01:54 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-08 14:00 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-08 15:24 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-11-10 00:11 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-10 00:43 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-11-10 09:08 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-11-10 13:28 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2025-11-10 10:11 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-10 11:02 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-11-10 15:00 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-11-10 15:52 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-10 17:05 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-10 10:10 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-11-10 15:48 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-07 17:59 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-07 18:39 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-12 11:01 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-12 20:47 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-12 22:22 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-12 23:28 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-13 01:31 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-13 09:35 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-13 11:37 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-04 01:05 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-04 01:24 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-04 02:28 +0000

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