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Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ?

From David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups comp.lang.misc
Subject Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ?
Date 2025-11-06 17:14 +0100
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <10eihgl$1826p$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (12 earlier) <10ecraf$3knbr$1@dont-email.me> <10efc7p$bjmh$1@dont-email.me> <10efmtu$ee0n$2@dont-email.me> <10ehip3$vcmo$1@dont-email.me> <10eiao8$16130$1@dont-email.me>

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On 06/11/2025 15:18, bart wrote:
> On 06/11/2025 07:29, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
>> On 05.11.2025 15:28, bart wrote:
> 
>>> It is ten times as complicated as it needs to be for use for everyday
>>> tasks.
>>
>> It's one of the most coherent languages I've seen over the past
>> decades. It has an orthogonal design. That and other things makes
>> it _easy_ to understand and use, *not* complex.
> 
> You really can't see it? Read through that Revised Report, which has 
> invented its own language for describing Algol68, and try and tell me 
> how that isn't completely over the top.
> 
> As for being orthognal, look at this set of function calls:
> 
>    f(a, b);      # 2 args
>    f(a);         # 1 arg
>    f;            # 0 args
> 
> Notice no parentheses on the last. Same goes for the declarations in 
> each case.
> 
> Or this:
> 
>     INT a, b, c;
>     BITS x, y z;
> 
>     a := b + c;
>     x := y XOR c;
> 
> Those last two lines are fine, but these are not:
> 
>     a := b XOR c;
>     x := y + z;
>     a := y + c;
> 

I don't know Algol, but if it distinguishes between types that can have 
bitwise logic operations and types that have arithmetic operations, then 
I approve of that.  These are separate concepts, and should use 
different types.  (IMHO, of course.)

> Or this:
> 
>    BEGIN
>       a := 1;
>       b := 2;
>       c := 3
>    END
> 
> Each line ends with a semicolon - except the last in a block. Yes I 
> understand the rule, but it means that because the last line is a 
> special case, you spend a lot of time dealing with it.
> 

I can see that being a nuisance.  It's fine to say semicolons are 
statement separators, but it would then be convenient if an empty 
statement is allowed.

> You can't temporarily comment out the last line, or temporarily add a 
> new last line, or move it elsewhere, or do any of usual stuff that comes 
> up in development, without reworking those semicolons.
> 
>>> And it looks dreadful with most stropping schemes. Quite unlike all
>>> those nicely typeset examples!
>>
>> You said before that you don't like stropping in principle. This
>> just reinforces what someone here said before, that "most of your
>> objections are merely your preferences".
> 
> Nobody likes stropping otherwise many more languages would look like 
> Algol68. They decided that spaces within identifiers, the main 
> advantage, are just not worth the trouble.
> 

I agree with you here - stropping is not pleasant.  It makes code harder 
to read and harder to write.  It's better for a language to minimise the 
number of keywords it has (or have some kind of "contextual keyword" 
scheme, but these can get complicated), and have namespaces so that you 
don't crowd out the global or unqualified namespace.

> I actually sometimes use stropping within my own projects, but it will 
> either be for machine-generated content, or only rarely in user-code:
> 
>     `exit()
> 
> This calls C's exit() function. Without the backtick, 'exit' is a 
> reserved word in my syntax.
> 
> I've just noticed another peculiarity of Algol68 (may be specific to A68G):
> 
> * Spaces are allowed in indentifiers, but they are not significant,
>    so that 'ab c' and 'a b c' are the same name.
> 
> * Identifiers must be lower case (I'd always thought it was case-
>    insensitive)
> 
> * Spaces are also ignored here: INTabc;
> 
> * But here: 'LONG INTabc def;'; 'LONG INT' are two tokens, but 'abc def'
>    are one token.
> 
> How can something so straightforward get so complicated!
> 

I'm sure you'd love metafont and metapost, where something that looks 
like a variable "x1" is actually element 1 of x (whether it is an array, 
a tuple, or similar).  You can't have digits in identifiers IIRC.

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Thread

Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-01 16:00 +0100
  Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-11-01 20:54 +0000
    Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-02 07:33 +0100
      Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-02 09:50 +0100
      Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-11-02 11:10 +0000
        Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-02 11:44 +0000
          Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-02 13:12 +0100
            Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-02 13:23 +0100
          Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-11-03 00:42 +0000
            Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-03 15:03 +0000
              Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-03 16:40 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-03 17:00 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-03 21:02 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-03 20:34 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-03 22:35 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-03 23:37 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-04 07:16 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-04 11:10 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-11-04 16:46 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-04 16:17 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-04 17:26 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-11-04 17:49 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-04 18:38 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-04 19:30 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-11-04 21:04 +0100
                Homebrew languages (was: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ?) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-06 00:39 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-05 12:52 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-05 14:02 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-04 18:28 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-11-04 21:14 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-03 17:32 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-03 20:28 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-03 20:10 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-03 22:31 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-04 12:24 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-11-04 17:02 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-05 12:25 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-05 14:12 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-05 14:28 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-06 08:29 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-06 14:18 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-06 15:58 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-11-07 21:22 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-07 23:13 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-08 03:17 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-11-08 03:50 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-08 04:47 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-08 12:42 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-08 21:37 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-09 20:34 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-09 21:08 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-11-09 16:58 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-08 11:34 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-11-09 17:16 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-09 19:11 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-09 20:58 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-11-10 13:56 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-10 20:52 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-11-11 12:53 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-11 20:51 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-11-06 17:14 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-06 19:41 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-06 22:01 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-08 12:24 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-11-07 23:33 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-11-04 00:35 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-04 07:07 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-04 14:57 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-11-05 23:59 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-06 01:03 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-06 07:40 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-06 10:59 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-11-06 16:59 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-06 17:58 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-06 20:14 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-06 22:16 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-06 22:47 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-11-07 14:34 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-07 15:42 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-11-07 16:50 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-07 19:49 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-07 20:01 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-11-08 00:26 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-08 01:54 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-08 14:00 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-08 15:24 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-11-10 00:11 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-10 00:43 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-11-10 09:08 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-11-10 13:28 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2025-11-10 10:11 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-10 11:02 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-11-10 15:00 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-11-10 15:52 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-10 17:05 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-10 10:10 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-11-10 15:48 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-07 17:59 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-07 18:39 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-12 11:01 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-12 20:47 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-12 22:22 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-12 23:28 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-13 01:31 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-13 09:35 +0100
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-13 11:37 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-04 01:05 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-04 01:24 +0000
                Re: Algol 68 - array of procedures aligned at index 0 ? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-04 02:28 +0000

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