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| From | Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.misc |
| Subject | Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format |
| Date | 2025-08-23 17:49 +0200 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <108cnuc$28ld2$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | <108bh8a$1vgqm$1@dont-email.me> <108ciqh$227hj$1@dont-email.me> |
On 23.08.2025 16:22, Andy Walker wrote:
> On 23/08/2025 05:49, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> [...]
>> i.e. it shall have the properties
>> * one digit after the decimal point (rounding excess digits)
>> * one leading 0 before decimal point (for -1 < value < +1 )
>> * minimum required space (no blanks or other padding)
>> In Algol 68 [...]> Where's the trick, what am I missing?
>
> I think you're SOL.
(Sort of "out of luck"?) Yeah, obviously. Good that it's not crucial
in my application, as already mentioned.
> The problem is that your second criterion
> ["one leading 0 ..."] contradicts your third ["minimum ..."].
Erm, no. I disagree here. - We can argue what "minimum" means. Okay.
(The anglo-american .0 is not common herabouts; we always write the
single leading 0. But anyway.) So I accept that you may consider my
requirement, say, something like esoteric. :-)
> A68
> resolves this in favour of the third, you want it resolved in favour
> of the second.
You're explaining Algol 68 mechanics. Right? - I got it; as it had
been defined in Algol 68 it's impossible to achieve directly. Right?
(It's a pity. Given that Algol 68 was designed with a large European
participation, where "0.45" is a standard representation form. Even
the "US American" "C" got that "right". ;-)
To omit the requirement "minimum" let's reiterate _by examples_, and
then I'll state the _two problems_(!) based on that.
What I need is just what I get with %.1f in shell, in printf, in "C",
in Simula, in any of many many other languages.
"C"
printf ("v=%.1f m/s\n", .45);
printf ("v=%.1f m/s\n", 22.35);
v=0.5 m/s
v=22.4 m/s
Unix tools
$ /usr/bin/printf "v=%.1f [m/s]\n" .45 22.35
v=0.4 [m/s] # different rounding here
v=22.4 [m/s]
Kornshell
$ printf "v=%.1f [m/s]\n" .45 22.35
v=0.5 [m/s]
v=22.4 [m/s]
or in Simula (1967)[*]
outtext ("v="); outfix (.45, 1, 0); outimage;
outtext ("v="); outfix (22.4, 1, 0); outimage;
v=0.5
v=22.4
So that's the requirement without resorting to the word "minimum".
It was anyway just introduced to give the "no padding" requirement
a name; I had explained "(no blanks or other padding)".
And we can also see that this is quite a standard representation
with default settings (nowadays and in the past, in programming
languages and in cultures).
The problem I encountered is two-fold. As I already showed, the
powerful FORMAT (where you can control almost everything, and in
an own formatting sub-language!) has a "representation hole"(!),
as a specific value/representation is in a non-orthogonal way not
possible to represent. - I understand your statement that there's
no standard way around, within what and how Algol 68 supports it.
Okay, I have to accept that. - The other problem (here with Genie)
is that the Genie extension of "C" formatting is also "buggy" - I
mean that it's only "closely [but not exactly] resembling" "C" -
if we look at its output here:
$ genie -x 'printf (($ "v=" %.1f " m/s" l $, .45, 22.35))'
1 (printf (($ "v=" %.1f " m/s" l $, .45, 22.35)))
1
a68g: warning: 1: fixed-c-pattern is an extension.
v=0.5 m/s
v= 22 m/s
We see that the leading zero works as expected, but formatting of
the value 22.35 is completely wrong (for "%.1f").
(I suppose it makes no sense to file a bug report since Marcel
already chose the formulation "closely resembling C format" in
the documentation, which admits an "approximate" implementation.)
(I'm sorry to have to throw a shade on the beautiful programming
language and the great Genie tool. - But as I extensively use it
at the moment it's not surprising to stumble across some "dark
corners" that may remain unseen in sporadic uses.)
Janis
[*] I'm listing that just because of your later date related sort
of argument ("A68 got there long before C and its relatives"); I
consider that, if at all, a very weak argument.
Back to comp.lang.misc | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar
Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-08-23 06:49 +0200
Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-08-23 15:22 +0100
Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-08-23 17:49 +0200
Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-08-24 00:58 +0100
Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-08-25 01:49 +0200
Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-08-26 23:53 +0100
Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-08-23 19:28 +0200
Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-08-24 00:27 +0100
Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-24 02:49 +0000
Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-08-25 01:57 +0200
Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-08-25 02:14 +0200
Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-08-27 00:58 +0100
Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-08-27 08:23 +0200
Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-08-27 23:23 +0100
Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-08-28 07:35 +0200
Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-08-29 00:43 +0100
Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-08-30 05:40 +0200
Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-08-30 20:38 +0100
Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-08-31 10:10 +0200
Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-09-01 17:20 +0100
Algol 68 / Genie - new release (was Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-09-02 00:56 +0200
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-09-02 01:15 +0200
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release (was Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format) Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-09-02 17:02 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release (was Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-09-02 22:17 +0200
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release (was Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format) Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-09-04 17:01 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release (was Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-09-05 04:32 +0200
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release (was Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-02 23:04 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release (was Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-09-03 01:46 +0200
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release (was Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format) Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-09-04 00:30 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-09-10 17:15 +0200
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-09-10 23:57 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-09-11 07:27 +0200
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-09-11 09:42 +0200
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-09-11 17:16 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-09-27 00:41 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-09-27 14:38 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-09-29 01:15 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-09-29 16:05 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-09-29 18:57 +0200
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-09-30 15:58 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-09-30 17:48 +0200
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-09-29 19:08 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-09-30 23:23 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-01 23:00 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-10-02 16:55 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-02 21:51 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-04 12:38 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-04 14:04 +0200
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-10-04 13:47 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-04 15:03 +0200
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-04 15:07 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-10-04 18:40 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-04 19:46 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-10-07 16:37 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-07 17:16 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-10-07 23:58 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-08 01:20 +0200
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-10-08 16:10 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-08 17:41 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-09 00:53 +0200
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-09 01:02 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-08 01:09 +0200
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-07 22:27 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2025-10-08 00:20 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-04 22:00 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-05 00:31 +0200
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-05 01:52 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-05 03:15 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-05 11:05 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-05 20:20 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-10-06 09:44 +0200
Higher order functions (was Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-06 10:01 +0200
Re: Higher order functions (was Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-10-06 10:56 +0200
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-06 11:03 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-06 22:01 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-06 23:46 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-06 23:05 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-07 10:32 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-08 04:57 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-10-05 13:24 +0200
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-10-08 20:21 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-08 21:30 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-08 22:40 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-10-10 04:18 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-10 16:21 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-10-11 00:05 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-11 11:25 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-11 13:08 +0200
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-11 15:25 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-10-11 12:39 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-09 00:34 +0200
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-10-09 03:15 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2025-10-09 08:59 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-10-09 14:31 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2025-10-09 14:53 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2025-10-09 10:35 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-09 21:37 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-10-10 17:40 +0200
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-10 20:04 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-10 21:45 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-11 00:29 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-11 00:16 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-11 01:59 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-11 01:42 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-11 10:42 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-31 06:51 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-10-13 20:58 +0200
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-13 23:13 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-10-14 00:39 +0200
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-10-12 03:56 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-10-13 22:38 +0200
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-10-24 04:33 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-10-03 22:24 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-04 03:39 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-04 12:19 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-04 14:16 +0200
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-04 21:05 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-05 01:40 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-05 03:13 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-10-05 01:29 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-10-07 15:25 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-07 17:03 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-07 22:09 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Adam Sampson <ats@offog.org> - 2025-10-08 18:22 +0100
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-08 21:48 +0000
Re: Algol 68 / Genie - new release antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-10-08 23:45 +0000
Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-08-30 06:54 +0200
Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-08-31 00:44 +0100
Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-31 08:12 +0000
Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-08-31 10:42 +0200
Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-09-01 00:10 +0100
Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-01 07:30 +0000
Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-09-01 16:13 +0100
Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-01 22:41 +0000
Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-09-02 14:23 +0100
Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-02 23:08 +0000
Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-09-04 00:54 +0100
Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-08-31 10:29 +0200
Re: Algol 68 - formatting with fixed point format Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-24 02:47 +0000
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