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Getting started with Java on a Mac

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  Getting started with Java on a Mac Wayne Dernoncourt <wayned@panix.com> - 2012-01-13 09:41 -0500
    Re: Getting started with Java on a Mac Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-01-13 09:04 -0800
    Re: Getting started with Java on a Mac Jim Gibson <jimsgibson@gmail.com> - 2012-01-13 10:01 -0800
      Re: Getting started with Java on a Mac Wayne Dernoncourt <wayned@panix.com> - 2012-01-13 13:26 -0500
        Re: Getting started with Java on a Mac Jim Gibson <jimsgibson@gmail.com> - 2012-01-13 16:11 -0800
          Re: Getting started with Java on a Mac Wayne Dernoncourt <wayned@panix.com> - 2012-01-16 13:48 -0500
          Re: Getting started with Java on a Mac Wayne Dernoncourt <wayned@panix.com> - 2012-01-16 20:24 -0500
            Re: Getting started with Java on a Mac Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-01-16 21:20 -0500
              Re: Getting started with Java on a Mac Wayne Dernoncourt <wayned@panix.com> - 2012-01-17 05:33 -0500
                Re: Getting started with Java on a Mac Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> - 2012-01-17 11:30 -0800
                  Re: Getting started with Java on a Mac Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-01-17 17:34 -0500
                Re: Getting started with Java on a Mac Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-01-17 17:32 -0500
              Re: Getting started with Java on a Mac Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2012-01-19 13:09 +0000
                Re: Getting started with Java on a Mac Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-01-19 08:35 -0800
                  Re: Getting started with Java on a Mac Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-01-19 19:08 -0500
                Re: Getting started with Java on a Mac Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-01-19 19:05 -0500
                  Re: Getting started with Java on a Mac Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2012-01-20 21:50 +0000
                    Re: Getting started with Java on a Mac Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-01-20 21:15 -0500
                  Re: Getting started with Java on a Mac rossum <rossum48@coldmail.com> - 2012-01-21 17:44 +0000
                    Re: Getting started with Java on a Mac Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-01-21 15:59 -0500
        Re: Getting started with Java on a Mac Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-01-13 16:43 -0800
      Re: Getting started with Java on a Mac Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> - 2012-01-13 16:58 -0800
        Re: Getting started with Java on a Mac Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-01-14 22:46 -0500
      Re: Getting started with Java on a Mac Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-01-13 23:12 -0400
        Re: Getting started with Java on a Mac Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2012-01-13 20:13 -0800
          Re: Getting started with Java on a Mac Gene <gene.ressler@gmail.com> - 2012-01-13 20:47 -0800
            Re: Getting started with Java on a Mac Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2012-01-13 23:16 -0800
            Re: Getting started with Java on a Mac Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> - 2012-01-13 23:56 -0800
            Re: Getting started with Java on a Mac Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-01-14 11:17 -0800
            Re: Getting started with Java on a Mac Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-01-14 22:52 -0500
          Re: Getting started with Java on a Mac Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-01-14 11:00 -0400
            Re: Getting started with Java on a Mac "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2012-01-14 22:30 -0500
      Re: Getting started with Java on a Mac Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-01-14 22:45 -0500
    Re: Getting started with Java on a Mac "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2012-01-13 22:29 -0500

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#11301 — Getting started with Java on a Mac

I've been looking for a programming language to help me write tools to do 
stuff.  For example generate 2-D plots from CSV or text files.  C++ can do 
that (and more) but there's a lot more overhead and maintenance that that 
requires.  In the past I've used Tcl/Tk for that kind of task but that seems 
to be dying<sniff>, Excel with Visual Basic can do most of that but not so 
much on the Mac.

I have a book "Core Jave" by Sun but I'm at a loss on how to start Java on my 
Mac.  Is there any help for this noob?

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#11307

On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 09:41:16 -0500, Wayne Dernoncourt
<wayned@panix.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said
:

>I have a book "Core Jave" by Sun but I'm at a loss on how to start Java on my 
>Mac.  Is there any help for this noob?

You can do quite a bit with cannibalising.  For example
see http://mindprod.com/products1.html#CSV to read CSV files.

Look at http://mindprod.com/products1.html#BIO for how you might plot
graphs.  All the pieces are there for you to build a program to plot
CSV files.

You want something fancier, see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/graph.html
I think some of the plotting packages are free.
-- 
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com
One of the most useful comments you can put in a program is 
"If you change this, remember to change ?XXX? too".
 

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#11309

In article <0001HW.CB35ACBC000174A4B038C9DF@news.panix.com>, Wayne
Dernoncourt <wayned@panix.com> wrote:

> I've been looking for a programming language to help me write tools to do 
> stuff.  For example generate 2-D plots from CSV or text files.  C++ can do 
> that (and more) but there's a lot more overhead and maintenance that that 
> requires.  In the past I've used Tcl/Tk for that kind of task but that seems 
> to be dying<sniff>, Excel with Visual Basic can do most of that but not so 
> much on the Mac.
> 
> I have a book "Core Jave" by Sun but I'm at a loss on how to start Java on my 
> Mac.  Is there any help for this noob?
> 

Java will run on a Mac, but is not well supported. Java is (or was)
provided by Apple, but the version often lagged, and they have
announced dropping support for Java. You will then depend upon Oracle
or some other party providing a Mac version:

<http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010/11/12Oracle-and-Apple-Announce-Ope
nJDK-Project-for-Mac-OS-X.html>

Eclipse is available, so you might want to use that, although there
will be a bit of a learning curve.

I use a combination of Perl and gnuplot to generate 2D plots from CSV
or text files on a Mac. Since you are coming from Tcl/Tk, maybe picking
up Perl wouldn't be too hard.

-- 
Jim Gibson

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#11311

On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 13:01:31 -0500, Jim Gibson wrote
(in article <130120121001312844%jimsgibson@gmail.com>):

> In article <0001HW.CB35ACBC000174A4B038C9DF@news.panix.com>, Wayne
> Dernoncourt <wayned@panix.com> wrote:
> 
>> I've been looking for a programming language to help me write tools to do 
>> stuff.  For example generate 2-D plots from CSV or text files.  C++ can do 
>> that (and more) but there's a lot more overhead and maintenance that that 
>> requires.  In the past I've used Tcl/Tk for that kind of task but that 
>> seems 
>> to be dying<sniff>, Excel with Visual Basic can do most of that but not so 
>> much on the Mac.
>> 
>> I have a book "Core Jave" by Sun but I'm at a loss on how to start Java on 
>> my 
>> Mac.  Is there any help for this noob?
>> 
> 
> Java will run on a Mac, but is not well supported. Java is (or was)
> provided by Apple, but the version often lagged, and they have
> announced dropping support for Java. You will then depend upon Oracle
> or some other party providing a Mac version:

> <http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010/11/12Oracle-and-Apple-Announce-Ope
> nJDK-Project-for-Mac-OS-X.html>

That's what I was afraid of...

But if it will let me learn how to get things started, it might be enough.  I 
may have to recondition an old WinXP desktop that is lying around and see 
what I can get for that.

> Eclipse is available, so you might want to use that, although there
> will be a bit of a learning curve.

<sigh>

> I use a combination of Perl and gnuplot to generate 2D plots from CSV
> or text files on a Mac. Since you are coming from Tcl/Tk, maybe picking
> up Perl wouldn't be too hard.

It's been 10-12 years since I've used Perl, one of the "potential" 
applications is 3D rotation in plotting points from a text file.  Currently 
one of the guys at work is using Matlab for that, I was hoping for something 
a little simpler.

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#11314

In article <0001HW.CB35E18A000DD4E9B038C9DF@news.panix.com>, Wayne
Dernoncourt <wayned@panix.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 13:01:31 -0500, Jim Gibson wrote
> (in article <130120121001312844%jimsgibson@gmail.com>):
> 

> 
> > I use a combination of Perl and gnuplot to generate 2D plots from CSV
> > or text files on a Mac. Since you are coming from Tcl/Tk, maybe picking
> > up Perl wouldn't be too hard.
> 
> It's been 10-12 years since I've used Perl, one of the "potential" 
> applications is 3D rotation in plotting points from a text file.  Currently 
> one of the guys at work is using Matlab for that, I was hoping for something 
> a little simpler.
> 

gnuplot will plot 3D plots from numbers in a text file, if the file is
formatted appropriately. It can also do rotation of the view point.
However, it is just for display, and you can't (AFAIK) store the
resulting rotated points.

There are several IDEs for Java under Mac OS X:

<http://www.google.com/search?rls=en&q=java+ide+for+mac+os+x&ie=UTF-8&oe
=UTF-8>

One of those might get you started quickly. I haven't used any of them
under Mac OS, so can't recommend any in particular.

-- 
Jim Gibson

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#11383

On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 19:11:30 -0500, Jim Gibson wrote
(in article <130120121611307236%jimsgibson@gmail.com>):

> In article <0001HW.CB35E18A000DD4E9B038C9DF@news.panix.com>, Wayne
> Dernoncourt <wayned@panix.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 13:01:31 -0500, Jim Gibson wrote
>> (in article <130120121001312844%jimsgibson@gmail.com>):
>> 
> 
>> 
>>> I use a combination of Perl and gnuplot to generate 2D plots from CSV
>>> or text files on a Mac. Since you are coming from Tcl/Tk, maybe picking
>>> up Perl wouldn't be too hard.
>> 
>> It's been 10-12 years since I've used Perl, one of the "potential" 
>> applications is 3D rotation in plotting points from a text file.  Currently 
>> one of the guys at work is using Matlab for that, I was hoping for 
>> something 
>> a little simpler.
>> 
> 
> gnuplot will plot 3D plots from numbers in a text file, if the file is
> formatted appropriately. It can also do rotation of the view point.
> However, it is just for display, and you can't (AFAIK) store the
> resulting rotated points.

The results are just for displaying the points.  I have no clue if/when I'm 
going to deal with surfaces (the Z-axis), the points are physically on 
surfaces and the target users need to be able to identify points on the 
physical surfaces.  I know that this could very well neer happen.  There is a 
guy that had a way to use Maya(?) to produce views with a surface model and 
overlaying the points.  He insisted that he needed more information (a more 
refined surface model, etc.) - using ping pong balls instead of the actual 
shapes would've been fine, that is it's better than what we have. It never 
happened, sigh.

<WRT matrix math, etc.) MATLAB is terrific for lots of things, for other 
things it's overkill.

> There are several IDEs for Java under Mac OS X:

> <http://www.google.com/search?rls=en&q=java+ide+for+mac+os+x&ie=UTF-8&oe
> =UTF-8>

> One of those might get you started quickly. I haven't used any of them
> under Mac OS, so can't recommend any in particular.

I haven't had the time/inclination to do that over the weekend.  I'll d that 
shortly.  Thanks much.

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#11397

On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 19:11:30 -0500, Jim Gibson wrote
(in article <130120121611307236%jimsgibson@gmail.com>):

> In article <0001HW.CB35E18A000DD4E9B038C9DF@news.panix.com>, Wayne
> Dernoncourt <wayned@panix.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 13:01:31 -0500, Jim Gibson wrote
>> (in article <130120121001312844%jimsgibson@gmail.com>):

>>> I use a combination of Perl and gnuplot to generate 2D plots from CSV
>>> or text files on a Mac. Since you are coming from Tcl/Tk, maybe picking
>>> up Perl wouldn't be too hard.

I've written code in Tcl/Tk to "tie" programs together mainly in the Unix 
world.  It was very useful but the last time I tried to get Tcl/Tk to work it 
didn't work well (it wouldn't run, I don't remember the issue but there were 
other alternatives at the time).

>> It's been 10-12 years since I've used Perl, one of the "potential" 
>> applications is 3D rotation in plotting points from a text file.  Currently 
>> one of the guys at work is using Matlab for that, I was hoping for 
>> something 
>> a little simpler.
>> 
> 
> gnuplot will plot 3D plots from numbers in a text file, if the file is
> formatted appropriately. It can also do rotation of the view point.
> However, it is just for display, and you can't (AFAIK) store the
> resulting rotated points.

> There are several IDEs for Java under Mac OS X:

> <http://www.google.com/search?rls=en&q=java+ide+for+mac+os+x&ie=UTF-8&oe
> =UTF-8>

> One of those might get you started quickly. I haven't used any of them
> under Mac OS, so can't recommend any in particular.

It looks like Eclipse might fill the bill, I need to do some reading to 
figure out which version is appropriate - EE, Classic, etc.

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#11398

On 1/16/2012 8:24 PM, Wayne Dernoncourt wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 19:11:30 -0500, Jim Gibson wrote
>> <http://www.google.com/search?rls=en&q=java+ide+for+mac+os+x&ie=UTF-8&oe
>> =UTF-8>
>
>> One of those might get you started quickly. I haven't used any of them
>> under Mac OS, so can't recommend any in particular.
>
> It looks like Eclipse might fill the bill,

I strongly suspect that NetBeans would work too.

>                                             I need to do some reading to
> figure out which version is appropriate - EE, Classic, etc.

desktop apps => Eclipse IDE for Java Developers

server apps => Eclipse IDE for Java EE Developers

Arne

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#11399

On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 21:20:31 -0500, Arne Vajhøj wrote
(in article <4f14daf0$0$289$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>):

> On 1/16/2012 8:24 PM, Wayne Dernoncourt wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 19:11:30 -0500, Jim Gibson wrote
>>> <http://www.google.com/search?rls=en&q=java+ide+for+mac+os+x&ie=UTF-8&oe
>>> =UTF-8>
>> 
>>> One of those might get you started quickly. I haven't used any of them
>>> under Mac OS, so can't recommend any in particular.
>> 
>> It looks like Eclipse might fill the bill,
> 
> I strongly suspect that NetBeans would work too.

I was thinking NetBeans was targeted towards enterprise apps, obviously I 
need to widen reading.

>> I need to do some reading to
>> figure out which version is appropriate - EE, Classic, etc.

> desktop apps => Eclipse IDE for Java Developers

> server apps => Eclipse IDE for Java EE Developers

Thank you for the clarifying that.  I'm starting out as a beginner so I'm 
going for desktop apps for now.

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#11423

In article <0001HW.CB3AB89800009F27B038C9DF@news.panix.com>, Wayne 
Dernoncourt says...


> Thank you for the clarifying that.  I'm starting out as a beginner so I'm 
> going for desktop apps for now.


I don't want to start another IDE war, but I will point out that I 
switched from Netbeans to Eclipse years ago and haven't looked back. 

If you decide to use Eclipse, check out this service:

http://eclipsesource.com/en/yoxos/

I find it quite useful.


-- 
Steve Sobol - Programming/WebDev/IT Support
sjsobol@JustThe.net

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#11429

On 1/17/2012 2:30 PM, Steve Sobol wrote:
> In article<0001HW.CB3AB89800009F27B038C9DF@news.panix.com>, Wayne
> Dernoncourt says...
>> Thank you for the clarifying that.  I'm starting out as a beginner so I'm
>> going for desktop apps for now.
>
> I don't want to start another IDE war, but I will point out that I
> switched from Netbeans to Eclipse years ago and haven't looked back.

I prefer Eclipse too.

But there are also those that prefer NetBeans.

Arne

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#11428

On 1/17/2012 5:33 AM, Wayne Dernoncourt wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 21:20:31 -0500, Arne Vajhøj wrote
> (in article<4f14daf0$0$289$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>):
>
>> On 1/16/2012 8:24 PM, Wayne Dernoncourt wrote:
>>> On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 19:11:30 -0500, Jim Gibson wrote
>>>> <http://www.google.com/search?rls=en&q=java+ide+for+mac+os+x&ie=UTF-8&oe
>>>> =UTF-8>
>>>
>>>> One of those might get you started quickly. I haven't used any of them
>>>> under Mac OS, so can't recommend any in particular.
>>>
>>> It looks like Eclipse might fill the bill,
>>
>> I strongly suspect that NetBeans would work too.
>
> I was thinking NetBeans was targeted towards enterprise apps, obviously I
> need to widen reading.

NetBeans should cover both SE and EE apps.

Arne

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#11490

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Mon, 16 Jan 2012, Arne Vajhøj wrote:

> On 1/16/2012 8:24 PM, Wayne Dernoncourt wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 19:11:30 -0500, Jim Gibson wrote
>>> <http://www.google.com/search?rls=en&q=java+ide+for+mac+os+x&ie=UTF-8&oe
>>> =UTF-8>
>> 
>>> One of those might get you started quickly. I haven't used any of them
>>> under Mac OS, so can't recommend any in particular.
>> 
>> It looks like Eclipse might fill the bill,
>
> I strongly suspect that NetBeans would work too.
>
>>                                             I need to do some reading to
>> figure out which version is appropriate - EE, Classic, etc.
>
> desktop apps => Eclipse IDE for Java Developers
>
> server apps => Eclipse IDE for Java EE Developers

Roughly. AIUI, the SQL support is in the EE edition, but not the standard 
edition. If you want to use SQL on the desktop, you might like to get the 
EE edition.

The EE edition is basically the standard edition with more perspectives 
and views. I don't believe it alters anything that's in the standard 
edition. So, if you can spare the disk space, i would suggest getting the 
EE edition, so you have a pretty complete Java development environment, 
even if you don't use much of the EE bits. You never know, at some point, 
you might want to write a little web application.

Although, having said all that, i would suggest not starting with an IDE, 
or at least not one of any complexity. An editor with automatic 
indentation and syntax highlighting will do; TextWrangler is good, and 
actually, XCode is a pretty good Java editor, even if it is lacking as an 
IDE.

tom

-- 
skin thinking

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#11495

Tom Anderson wrote:
> Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> desktop apps => Eclipse IDE for Java Developers
>>
>> server apps => Eclipse IDE for Java EE Developers
>
> Roughly. AIUI, the SQL support is in the EE edition, but not the standard
> edition. If you want to use SQL on the desktop, you might like to get the EE
> edition.
>
> The EE edition is basically the standard edition with more perspectives and
> views. I [sic] don't believe it alters anything that's in the standard edition. So,
> if you can spare the disk space, i would suggest getting the EE edition, so
> you have a pretty complete Java development environment, even if you don't use
> much of the EE bits. You never know, at some point, you might want to write a
> little web application.

If you don't have the disk space for the EE edition, you don't have enough 
disk space to do Java development.  Just get the EE edition.

> Although, having said all that, i would suggest not starting with an IDE, or
> at least not one of any complexity. An editor with automatic indentation and
> syntax highlighting will do; TextWrangler is good, and actually, XCode is a
> pretty good Java editor, even if it is lacking as an IDE.

This is controversial advice. The merit of command-line builds is that you 
learn your stuff. The downside is you get off to a slightly slower start. I 
concur that it is worth the effort to master using Java from the command line.

"What?" you ask. "Who said anything about command line?"  Well, if you take 
Tom's advice and avoid an IDE, your editor won't do builds, debugging, 
classpath management, syntax-checking, expression completion or all the little 
Java niceties that the IDEs provide. You also lose the dashboard for resources 
like database systems, web servers, application servers, build profiles and 
such. You will have to use the command line to build your systems, i.e., the 
"java" and "javac" commands, Ant or Maven.

If you use an IDE like NetBeans or Eclipse then you get all that assistance 
and convenience, but you might get sloppy in your learning.

I favor a third approach. Use an IDE, but always check your work with a 
command-line build in a separately checked-out workspace (you MUST use version 
control ALWAYS, even on solo projects). I've worked on major projects 
(big-iron Federal systems) where the command-line build differed significantly 
from the developers' Eclipse-based ones, and it took two people two days for 
each release to convert the Eclipse build data for the official build. If you 
find a discrepancy between your IDE build and your command-line build, fix the 
former to match the latter.  Builds should never rely on a particular IDE or 
editor.

As for which editor to use, vi and emacs are just fine in the modern world if 
you do eschew an IDE.  Which I wouldn't.

-- 
Lew
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Friz.jpg

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#11506

On 1/19/2012 11:35 AM, Lew wrote:
> Tom Anderson wrote:
>> Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> desktop apps => Eclipse IDE for Java Developers
>>>
>>> server apps => Eclipse IDE for Java EE Developers
...
>> Although, having said all that, i would suggest not starting with an
>> IDE, or
>> at least not one of any complexity. An editor with automatic
>> indentation and
>> syntax highlighting will do; TextWrangler is good, and actually, XCode
>> is a
>> pretty good Java editor, even if it is lacking as an IDE.
>
> This is controversial advice. The merit of command-line builds is that
> you learn your stuff. The downside is you get off to a slightly slower
> start. I concur that it is worth the effort to master using Java from
> the command line.
>
> "What?" you ask. "Who said anything about command line?" Well, if you
> take Tom's advice and avoid an IDE, your editor won't do builds,
> debugging, classpath management, syntax-checking, expression completion
> or all the little Java niceties that the IDEs provide. You also lose the
> dashboard for resources like database systems, web servers, application
> servers, build profiles and such. You will have to use the command line
> to build your systems, i.e., the "java" and "javac" commands, Ant or Maven.
>
> If you use an IDE like NetBeans or Eclipse then you get all that
> assistance and convenience, but you might get sloppy in your learning.

Or never learn at all.

> I favor a third approach. Use an IDE, but always check your work with a
> command-line build in a separately checked-out workspace (you MUST use
> version control ALWAYS, even on solo projects). I've worked on major
> projects (big-iron Federal systems) where the command-line build
> differed significantly from the developers' Eclipse-based ones, and it
> took two people two days for each release to convert the Eclipse build
> data for the official build. If you find a discrepancy between your IDE
> build and your command-line build, fix the former to match the latter.
> Builds should never rely on a particular IDE or editor.

I very much agree on the approach for above beginner level.

I use it myself for most stuff I do.

But the IDE-VCS-CLI setup may be a bit too advanced for the beginner.

Arne

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#11505

On 1/19/2012 8:09 AM, Tom Anderson wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jan 2012, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>
>> On 1/16/2012 8:24 PM, Wayne Dernoncourt wrote:
>>> On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 19:11:30 -0500, Jim Gibson wrote
>>>> <http://www.google.com/search?rls=en&q=java+ide+for+mac+os+x&ie=UTF-8&oe
>>>>
>>>> =UTF-8>
>>>
>>>> One of those might get you started quickly. I haven't used any of them
>>>> under Mac OS, so can't recommend any in particular.
>>>
>>> It looks like Eclipse might fill the bill,
>>
>> I strongly suspect that NetBeans would work too.
>>
>>> I need to do some reading to
>>> figure out which version is appropriate - EE, Classic, etc.
>>
>> desktop apps => Eclipse IDE for Java Developers
>>
>> server apps => Eclipse IDE for Java EE Developers
>
> Roughly. AIUI, the SQL support is in the EE edition, but not the
> standard edition. If you want to use SQL on the desktop, you might like
> to get the EE edition.

Support for writing SQL files may be a EE edition thing.

But that is not in my opinion a common thing to do for desktop app
development.

Plain JDBC with embedded SQL or an ORM for writing the code
and then creating the database structure in a database tool.

> The EE edition is basically the standard edition with more perspectives
> and views. I don't believe it alters anything that's in the standard
> edition. So, if you can spare the disk space, i would suggest getting
> the EE edition, so you have a pretty complete Java development
> environment, even if you don't use much of the EE bits. You never know,
> at some point, you might want to write a little web application.

True.

> Although, having said all that, i would suggest not starting with an
> IDE, or at least not one of any complexity. An editor with automatic
> indentation and syntax highlighting will do; TextWrangler is good, and
> actually, XCode is a pretty good Java editor, even if it is lacking as
> an IDE.

Or jEdit or UltraEdit or NotPad++ or NEdit or ... - there are
plenty of decent editors around.

I agree with the point that every new Java developer should learn
to develop using a standard editor and command line editor to learn
about classpath, jar files etc.etc..

Arne

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#11535

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012, Arne Vajhøj wrote:

> On 1/19/2012 8:09 AM, Tom Anderson wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 Jan 2012, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> 
>>> On 1/16/2012 8:24 PM, Wayne Dernoncourt wrote:
>>> 
>>>> It looks like Eclipse might fill the bill, I need to do some reading 
>>>> to figure out which version is appropriate - EE, Classic, etc.
>>> 
>>> desktop apps => Eclipse IDE for Java Developers
>>> 
>>> server apps => Eclipse IDE for Java EE Developers
>> 
>> Roughly. AIUI, the SQL support is in the EE edition, but not the 
>> standard edition. If you want to use SQL on the desktop, you might like 
>> to get the EE edition.
>
> Support for writing SQL files may be a EE edition thing.
>
> But that is not in my opinion a common thing to do for desktop app
> development.
>
> Plain JDBC with embedded SQL or an ORM for writing the code
> and then creating the database structure in a database tool.

Mostly true. It's useful to have the database view when developing, for 
running ad-hoc queries to look at data and so on. Also, for editing the 
generated schema to tweak constraints and indices and so on.

>> Although, having said all that, i would suggest not starting with an 
>> IDE, or at least not one of any complexity. An editor with automatic 
>> indentation and syntax highlighting will do; TextWrangler is good, and 
>> actually, XCode is a pretty good Java editor, even if it is lacking as 
>> an IDE.
>
> Or jEdit or UltraEdit or NotPad++ or NEdit or ... - there are
> plenty of decent editors around.

Most of which aren't relevant in a thread about programming on a Mac. I 
mentioned TextWrangler and XCode because they're the best freeware editors 
on the Mac.

> I agree with the point that every new Java developer should learn to 
> develop using a standard editor and command line editor to learn about 
> classpath, jar files etc.etc..

Great minds think alike.

tom

-- 
MADSKILLZ!

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#11542

On 1/20/2012 4:50 PM, Tom Anderson wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Jan 2012, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 1/19/2012 8:09 AM, Tom Anderson wrote:
>>> On Mon, 16 Jan 2012, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>> On 1/16/2012 8:24 PM, Wayne Dernoncourt wrote:
>>>>> It looks like Eclipse might fill the bill, I need to do some
>>>>> reading to figure out which version is appropriate - EE, Classic, etc.
>>>>
>>>> desktop apps => Eclipse IDE for Java Developers
>>>>
>>>> server apps => Eclipse IDE for Java EE Developers
>>>
>>> Roughly. AIUI, the SQL support is in the EE edition, but not the
>>> standard edition. If you want to use SQL on the desktop, you might
>>> like to get the EE edition.
>>
>> Support for writing SQL files may be a EE edition thing.
>>
>> But that is not in my opinion a common thing to do for desktop app
>> development.
>>
>> Plain JDBC with embedded SQL or an ORM for writing the code
>> and then creating the database structure in a database tool.
>
> Mostly true. It's useful to have the database view when developing, for
> running ad-hoc queries to look at data and so on. Also, for editing the
> generated schema to tweak constraints and indices and so on.

But there are database tools for that.

>>> Although, having said all that, i would suggest not starting with an
>>> IDE, or at least not one of any complexity. An editor with automatic
>>> indentation and syntax highlighting will do; TextWrangler is good,
>>> and actually, XCode is a pretty good Java editor, even if it is
>>> lacking as an IDE.
>>
>> Or jEdit or UltraEdit or NotPad++ or NEdit or ... - there are
>> plenty of decent editors around.
>
> Most of which aren't relevant in a thread about programming on a Mac. I
> mentioned TextWrangler and XCode because they're the best freeware
> editors on the Mac.

jEdit and NEdit do run on MacOS X.

Arne

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#11567

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 19:05:31 -0500, Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk>
wrote:

>Or jEdit or UltraEdit or NotPad++ or NEdit or ...
NotPad++?  Is that the Zen version that runs on all possible platforms
and does nothing whatsoever on all of them?  :D

rossum

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#11570

On 1/21/2012 12:44 PM, rossum wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 19:05:31 -0500, Arne Vajhøj<arne@vajhoej.dk>
> wrote:
>> Or jEdit or UltraEdit or NotPad++ or NEdit or ...
> NotPad++?  Is that the Zen version that runs on all possible platforms
> and does nothing whatsoever on all of them?  :D

:-)

I missed an e.

Arne

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