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Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #19863

Re: A proposal to handle file encodings

From markspace <-@.>
Newsgroups comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject Re: A proposal to handle file encodings
Date 2012-11-22 19:47 -0800
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <k8mrjv$5l6$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References <lb6ta81u9imfdtlpuesoc8slncju0ehsnm@4ax.com> <50aed080$0$292$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

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On 11/22/2012 5:25 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>
> Solved much easier by using meta data.


I think Roedy is talking about the physical encoding of the meta data. 
I personally agree with him in this regard:  meta data should be encoded 
into the physical file.

Consider for example a meta data format that we all use: the Jar file.

Each single Jar file is actually composed of many pieces of information. 
  Class files, resources, libraries, the manifest file, etc.  And yet 
it's all encoded into a single physical file.  You never loose pieces of 
the file just because you made a copy of the file.  You never have to 
worry about the meta data changing on a new system just because it's *new*.

Contrast that with other schemes.  Macintosh, I believe, uses a meta 
data format where the data is in one file, and the meta data occupies a 
second physical file with a name like .file-name.meta (I don't use Macs 
so I'm not 100%) sure.  So if you use a raw copy command ("cp" from the 
Unix command line) you *don't* get the meta data, because you forgot to 
copy it.

I hope you can all quickly see how obviously broken that is.  Since we 
all use Jar files I think you can all reflect on the idea that it's a 
good solution.  Have you ever had a problem with a Jar file retaining 
its meta data?  Is it ever desirable to have a Jar file's meta data 
revert to nulls just because you FTP'ed the file someplace?  I've never 
desired that "feature".

It seems obvious to me.  Encoding the meta data into a single physical 
file is by far the better solution.

No, where I think Roedy goes wrong is to invent a *new* file format.  My 
solution: use what's there already, just use Jar files.

Proposal: Add a property "Data-Archive" like so:

Manifest-Version: 1.0
Data-Archive: /data

Where the value of the Data-Archive is the path to the primary data 
stream (within the Zip/Jar file).  You can just add an encoding or 
mime-type or any other property to the manifest you like to describe 
your data stream and you're set.

Note that this is already being done.  Open Office uses Jar files as its 
native file format.  They just rename the extension as they wish, and 
open the file appropriately for a Jar file.  They also store a lot more 
meta data than just a couple of properties, so they effectively have 
their own format, not this simple one.

It might be useful to try to solve some common cases for data and 
meta-data.  What I've got here is a single data stream and a single 
"type" property.  It wouldn't be hard to extend this to several streams 
and several properties each.  I think that would be the only other 
useful general case; after that you should just roll your own solution.

BTW if anyone is copying this up to their website (mindprod), please 
credit appropriately: Brenden Towey.

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Thread

A proposal to handle file encodings Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-11-22 13:36 -0800
  Re: A proposal to handle file encodings Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2012-11-22 23:36 +0100
  Re: A proposal to handle file encodings markspace <-@.> - 2012-11-22 17:20 -0800
  Re: A proposal to handle file encodings Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-11-22 20:25 -0500
    Re: A proposal to handle file encodings markspace <-@.> - 2012-11-22 19:47 -0800
      Re: A proposal to handle file encodings Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-11-22 21:28 -0800
        Re: A proposal to handle file encodings Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-11-24 15:51 +0000
          Re: A proposal to handle file encodings "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at> - 2012-11-25 10:18 +0100
            Re: A proposal to handle file encodings Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-11-25 18:05 +0000
              Re: A proposal to handle file encodings "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at> - 2012-11-27 19:51 +0100
                Re: A proposal to handle file encodings Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-11-29 02:22 +0000
                Re: A proposal to handle file encodings "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at> - 2012-12-02 13:02 +0100
                Re: A proposal to handle file encodings Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-12-02 19:36 +0000
                Re: A proposal to handle file encodings "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at> - 2012-12-02 23:52 +0100
                Re: A proposal to handle file encodings Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-12-02 23:08 +0000
    Re: A proposal to handle file encodings Sven Köhler <remove-sven.koehler@gmail.com> - 2012-11-25 13:13 +0100
      Re: A proposal to handle file encodings Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-11-25 18:07 +0000
  Re: A proposal to handle file encodings Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2012-11-23 16:33 +0100
    Re: A proposal to handle file encodings Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-11-23 09:02 -0800
      Re: A proposal to handle file encodings Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2012-11-23 19:21 +0100
        Re: A proposal to handle file encodings "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at> - 2012-11-24 00:11 +0100
          Re: A proposal to handle file encodings Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2012-11-24 00:53 +0100
            Re: A proposal to handle file encodings "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at> - 2012-11-24 09:13 +0100
            Re: A proposal to handle file encodings Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-11-24 06:50 -0800
              Re: A proposal to handle file encodings "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at> - 2012-11-25 10:07 +0100
                Re: A proposal to handle file encodings Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2012-11-25 11:06 -0600
                Re: A proposal to handle file encodings "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at> - 2012-11-27 19:28 +0100
          Re: A proposal to handle file encodings Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-11-24 06:42 -0800
            Re: A proposal to handle file encodings "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at> - 2012-11-25 09:57 +0100
          Re: A proposal to handle file encodings Sven Köhler <remove-sven.koehler@gmail.com> - 2012-11-25 15:09 +0100
        Re: A proposal to handle file encodings Sven Köhler <remove-sven.koehler@gmail.com> - 2012-11-25 15:06 +0100
      Re: A proposal to handle file encodings Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2012-11-23 16:43 -0600
        Re: A proposal to handle file encodings Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2012-11-24 01:02 +0100
      Re: A proposal to handle file encodings BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-11-25 14:36 -0600
        Re: A proposal to handle file encodings Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2012-11-25 16:51 -0600
          Re: A proposal to handle file encodings BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-11-25 17:54 -0600
          Re: A proposal to handle file encodings Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2012-11-26 02:03 +0100
            Re: A proposal to handle file encodings Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2012-11-26 02:20 +0100
              Re: A proposal to handle file encodings Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-11-26 02:46 +0000

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