Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #11969

Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication

From	BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject	Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication
Date	2012-02-12 01:36 -0700
Organization	albasani.net
Message-ID	<jh7toi$lh8$1@news.albasani.net> (permalink)
References	(13 earlier) <4217698.319.1328892670179.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pbcwg4> <jh3l26$ol4$1@news.albasani.net> <4f36c705$0$294$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> <jh7adu$f21$1@news.albasani.net> <25948047.523.1329020325607.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pbqv10>

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On 2/11/2012 9:18 PM, Lew wrote:
> BGB wrote:
>> Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> LIBXML2 works fine on Windows, so you can use it on both platforms.
>>>
>>
>> yeah, it is an option.
>> however, it is not a standard library on Windows (in certain cases, one
>
> First you spend half a newsgroup thread decrying standards and
> proudly boasting how you flout them, now you suddenly denigrate a
> library for not being standard?
>
> And yes, libxml2 is, too, standard, as such things go.
>

standard, as-in, comes bundled with the OS and compiler.

libxml2 comes on Linux, but not on Windows with the "Windows SDK" or 
similar (AFAIK it does come with Cygwin though).

safely, one can use, on Windows:
the ANSI C runtime (more or less C89/C90);
any Win32 API provided stuff (Winsock, GDI, OpenGL, ...);
...

on Linux, one has:
the ANSI C runtime (C99);
POSIX;
X11 and OpenGL;
a big pile of FOSS libraries.

so, what is common:
the C runtime;
OpenGL.

and, what needs to be provided by OS specific shims:
BSD Sockets / Winsock;
GDI / GLX;
getting user-input (keyboard / mouse);
stuff for low-level memory management, threads, managing dynamic libraries;
...

most other things tend to be kept either internal or are optional.
I don't think architecturally it is all that unusual (take, for example, 
Doom 3 and Mozilla, both of which appear to have a similar architecture).

>> may need to provide for it, or expect anyone who wants to build from
>> source to provide for it, ...).
>
> "provide for it"?
>

have to make sure it is built, installed, and on the OS's library and 
include paths (like, mandating a particular build configuration).

otherwise, the library needs to be copied into the application's build 
tree, and built along with the application.

>>>> but, anyways, it is like asking a person never to write their own JPEG
>>>> loader/saver, or their own scripting-language compiler. yes, maybe a
>>>> person doesn't technically need to, but they may forsake potentially
>>>> valuable learning experiences (or the claim to having the skills to do
>>>> so).
>>>
>>> I think you should very clearly distinguish between when you talk about
>>> learning and programming production code.
>>>
>>> The goals are just so different.
>>>
>>
>> in my case, both often end up being the same code.
>
> So you don't write code for someone else?
>

like a contractor or something?... nope.

I write software for myself, and hopefully to try to get money more 
directly (selling directly to end users).

>> one may end up doing something initially as a learning activity, but if
>> one does so, and the code works fairly well, why write the same code
>> again?...
>
> Asked and answered upthread. Don't cycle.
>

with a thread this long, how is one supposed to remember all of what 
they have said already?

>> granted, being a programmer working for a corporation or something, vs
>> being an independent game developer, could also be a factor.
>
> If no one but you ever looks at your code or has to maintain it,
> you can be as idiosyncratic and antisocial as you like. I know
> people who've lived alone so long they cannot maintain a civil
> discourse in public. Their habits don't bother them when they're
> home alone, but that doesn't make them optimal.
>
> Most of your arguments sound like apologetics for undisciplined,
> egocentric programming with little connection to facts or the real
> world of the workaday programmer, or the costs thereof. Heck, you
> haven't even answered the question as to what the costs of software
> development are.
>

costs of software development?...
besides the obvious stuff, like writing the program and making it work?...

I don't personally believe my strategy to be making it all that much 
harder (or expensive) for myself.

but, anyways, discipline itself is a matter of cost/benefit tradeoffs, 
like "what do I get out of it?" and similar. the general idea is that 
people act in their self-interest to try to maximize their own gain. I 
don't think my behaviors are inconsistent with this ideal (except being 
lazy at times, where time spent not doing stuff is time wasted).

for example, there is the larger society, but each person is themselves, 
and the people and things around them can be valued in terms of how they 
may be of benefit to oneself and similar, but, with the side effect that 
often whatever is most benefit to oneself may potentially be of benefit 
to others as well (note: I don't currently personally believe altruism 
actually exists, but rather it is likely a sort of misconception 
regarding what really is in ones' best-interests).

similarly, the relative value of an action could be evaluated primarily 
in terms of its most likely costs and benefits (to oneself, although not 
necessarily immediate, for example a more immediate gain may cost more 
later on, ...).

discipline can itself cost in terms of time or effort, whereas hacking 
together something in the name of expedience can get it into working 
order quicker.

or such...

Thread

Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication jebblue <n@n.nnn> - 2012-02-07 12:11 -0600
  Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-07 16:38 -0700
    Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-07 20:26 -0400
      Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-08 01:41 -0700
        Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-08 07:19 -0400
          Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-08 12:07 -0700
            Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-08 21:16 -0500
              Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-08 19:50 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-09 06:24 -0400
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-09 09:15 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-09 18:58 -0400
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-09 16:15 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-09 18:50 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-09 21:40 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-11 14:47 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-11 12:06 -0800
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-11 15:18 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-11 23:03 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 09:27 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-12 13:33 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 15:50 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-12 14:34 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-09 18:48 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-09 21:46 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-10 08:51 -0800
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-10 10:43 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-10 13:15 -0800
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-10 14:50 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-10 14:32 -0800
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-10 17:10 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-10 22:08 -0400
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-11 00:49 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-11 14:04 -0400
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-11 14:55 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-11 14:52 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-11 20:06 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-11 22:41 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-12 00:46 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 09:29 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 09:31 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-02-12 16:02 +0000
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 11:16 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-02-12 22:46 +0000
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-12 11:33 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-11 20:18 -0800
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-12 01:36 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2012-02-12 13:52 -0600
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-12 14:43 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-11 14:49 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-09 18:46 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-09 18:45 -0500
        Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-08 14:02 -0800
          Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-08 18:49 -0700
            Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-08 21:14 -0500
              Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-08 20:07 -0800
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-08 23:29 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-09 09:40 -0800
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-09 17:02 -0700
              Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-08 21:10 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-09 18:54 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-10 10:25 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-11 14:45 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-11 12:14 -0800
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-11 15:20 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-11 22:20 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 09:23 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-12 12:13 -0700
    Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-07 20:24 -0500
    Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-02-08 01:31 +0000
      Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-08 00:55 -0700

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