Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #11968

Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication

From	BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject	Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication
Date	2012-02-12 00:46 -0700
Organization	albasani.net
Message-ID	<jh7qpv$dtd$1@news.albasani.net> (permalink)
References	(13 earlier) <4217698.319.1328892670179.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pbcwg4> <jh3l26$ol4$1@news.albasani.net> <4f36c705$0$294$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> <jh7adu$f21$1@news.albasani.net> <4f3734f8$0$287$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

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On 2/11/2012 8:41 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 2/11/2012 10:06 PM, BGB wrote:
>> On 2/11/2012 12:52 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> On 2/10/2012 12:43 PM, BGB wrote:
>>>> On 2/10/2012 9:51 AM, Lew wrote:
>>>>> BGB wrote:
>>>>>> if one is using C, then it is either "write some code to do it", or
>>>>>> suffer with a 3rd party [sic] library dependency (one might validly
>>>>>> choose to
>>>>>> write the code themselves in this case).
>>>>>
>>>>> "Suffer"? The XML parsers for C are well-established, very reliable,
>>>>> and no
>>>>> cause for suffering. Using a pejorative is not the same as
>>>>> establishing a
>>>>> point.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is nothing wrong with the third-party libraries, and the
>>>>> choice to
>>>>> roll your own for C is rarely valid. You seem to suffer from NIH
>>>>> syndrome.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> they introduce porting hassles:
>>>> does one bundle "libxml" with their app on Windows;
>>>> do they use MSXML and then deal with having to switch over to "libxml"
>>>> when building on Linux?
>>>
>>> LIBXML2 works fine on Windows, so you can use it on both platforms.
>>>
>>
>> yeah, it is an option.
>> however, it is not a standard library on Windows (in certain cases, one
>> may need to provide for it, or expect anyone who wants to build from
>> source to provide for it, ...).
>
> C is not standard on Windows either.
>
> You need to get some things.
>

probably, but it is a question of how many things have to be worried 
about as a part of getting it built (for someone wanting to rebuild from 
source). if a program depends on a big pile of 3rd party libraries, it 
may be harder to get rebuilt than if it doesn't.

it is arguably bad enough requiring that a particular C compiler be 
installed (such as MSVC / Windows SDK), and that the program has to be 
built in a certain way.

expecting the person to go download a bunch of libraries, get them 
built, and put them all in the library and include paths, well, this is 
adding a bit more to the cost.

this particular cost is a bit lower on Linux though, since 3rd party 
libraries are more commonly available and are handled more gracefully 
(nearly everything gets installed to "/usr/lib" and "/usr/include" and 
similar).

alternatively, one could be like:
this app needs to be built in Cygwin.

the tradeoff though is that Cygwin has its own annoyances (needing to 
have their DLL with compiled binaries, and the tendency for it to always 
have a console window pop up for the app if it wasn't launched from a 
console).

MinGW is a little nicer than Cygwin regarding the above, however it 
doesn't come by default with a large pile of 3rd party libraries (so, it 
has the same basic issue here as MSVC).

it is not that I haven't used any 3rd party libraries though, as a few 
have been used, but essentially copied into the project. a few past 
libraries were used, but later dropped since I had re-implemented their 
functionality in smaller forms.

this avoids needing them as external dependencies, since then they are 
built along with the application (then they are internal dependencies).

yeah, even within the same program, the matter of "what is allowed to 
use and depend on what" can become its own issue (if one doesn't pay 
attention to these internal dependencies, they may come around and bite).

>>>> but, anyways, it is like asking a person never to write their own JPEG
>>>> loader/saver, or their own scripting-language compiler. yes, maybe a
>>>> person doesn't technically need to, but they may forsake potentially
>>>> valuable learning experiences (or the claim to having the skills to do
>>>> so).
>>>
>>> I think you should very clearly distinguish between when you talk about
>>> learning and programming production code.
>>>
>>> The goals are just so different.
>>>
>>
>> in my case, both often end up being the same code.
>>
>> one may end up doing something initially as a learning activity, but if
>> one does so, and the code works fairly well, why write the same code
>> again?...
>
> Because what you learn the most from and what is most cost efficient for
> the company may very well be two different things.
>

well, it is possible.

often it ends up with a cycle where something is implemented once (or 
maybe a few times), and very often if something similar is needed later, 
code is reused via "copy/paste/edit" magic.

in my case though, admittedly I am not actually employed as a 
programmer, but am more of a college student + independent game 
developer (mostly working on a 3D FPS style game). like, one has to 
"face the impossible" and so on (and, with luck, getting something on 
the market and getting enough money to live on, and trying to make newer 
and better stuff, ...).

admittedly, a person who was notable influence for me was John Carmack, 
who was the lead programmer for id Software, and was well known for the 
Doom and Quake series games. I learned a fair amount from his code 
(since he tends to release it all under the GPL).

others influences include Linus Torvalds (who created Linux) and Notch 
(Marcus Persson, most well known for creating Minecraft). the Linux 
kernel was a notable influence on me regarding things like program 
architecture and similar.

in my case this also means dealing with with the all art, sound, music, 
... as well, so one tries to gain skills both as a programmer and as an 
artist. I consider myself to be much more of a programmer than an artist 
though (I started out programming, and the art can't do much without the 
code).

there is still a lot of areas for learning and experimentation though.

or such...

Thread

Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication jebblue <n@n.nnn> - 2012-02-07 12:11 -0600
  Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-07 16:38 -0700
    Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-07 20:26 -0400
      Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-08 01:41 -0700
        Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-08 07:19 -0400
          Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-08 12:07 -0700
            Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-08 21:16 -0500
              Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-08 19:50 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-09 06:24 -0400
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-09 09:15 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-09 18:58 -0400
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-09 16:15 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-09 18:50 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-09 21:40 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-11 14:47 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-11 12:06 -0800
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-11 15:18 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-11 23:03 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 09:27 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-12 13:33 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 15:50 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-12 14:34 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-09 18:48 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-09 21:46 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-10 08:51 -0800
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-10 10:43 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-10 13:15 -0800
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-10 14:50 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-10 14:32 -0800
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-10 17:10 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-10 22:08 -0400
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-11 00:49 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-11 14:04 -0400
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-11 14:55 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-11 14:52 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-11 20:06 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-11 22:41 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-12 00:46 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 09:29 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 09:31 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-02-12 16:02 +0000
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 11:16 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-02-12 22:46 +0000
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-12 11:33 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-11 20:18 -0800
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-12 01:36 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2012-02-12 13:52 -0600
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-12 14:43 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-11 14:49 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-09 18:46 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-09 18:45 -0500
        Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-08 14:02 -0800
          Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-08 18:49 -0700
            Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-08 21:14 -0500
              Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-08 20:07 -0800
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-08 23:29 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-09 09:40 -0800
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-09 17:02 -0700
              Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-08 21:10 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-09 18:54 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-10 10:25 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-11 14:45 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-11 12:14 -0800
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-11 15:20 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-11 22:20 -0700
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-12 09:23 -0500
                Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-12 12:13 -0700
    Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-07 20:24 -0500
    Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-02-08 01:31 +0000
      Re: Interplatform (interprocess, interlanguage) communication BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-08 00:55 -0700

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