Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #20814

Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ?

Date	2012-12-30 11:02 +0000
From	lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject	Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ?
References	(6 earlier) <raadnU-8Z6xqRkDNnZ2dnUVZ8madnZ2d@bt.com> <50de2260$0$293$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> <JfBDs.90567$2v.68591@newsfe05.iad> <idGdnWAQLIUadEPNnZ2dnUVZ7sudnZ2d@bt.com> <50df9ef7$0$284$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID	<jOqdnTE_e8PGgn3NnZ2dnUVZ8uydnZ2d@bt.com> (permalink)

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On 30/12/12 01:54, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 12/29/2012 8:00 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
>> I see the _service layer_ as aggregating fine grained business methods
>> behind a facade. The facade then exposes what are in effect 'atomic'
>> services that implement a particular subset of the business as seen by
>> the outside world. As far as external clients are concerned the
>> interface to the business is clearly defined.
>
> Facade pattern

Your point being ?

>> My question is how can the orchestration of service layer services
>> outside the system boundary be controlled in a way that would be
>> guaranteed not to potentially break the [business] rules ?
>
> You need to have context. Either have client send all
> context or send a ref to context saved in service layer.

Unconvinced I'm afraid

There are two possible types of actor interaction with a business 
Stateless and statefull.

A stateless interaction for example might be a request for currency 
conversion, or a free ESTIMATE for goods or services. You may offer 
these alongside other free services, Clients can mix and match your 
stateless services all they want and it has no impact on your business.

The other type is statefull. These interactions  do impact the state of 
your business, In 20 odd years of designing and implementing business 
systems I have never come across a situation where a business is happy 
to allow it's clients to dictate the terms of business in a random and 
uncontrollable way. Any control exercised over the combination of 
statefull services effectively extends the system boundary so the whole 
argument (allowing external orchestration of services) becomes moot.

This is not some academic conjecture on my part but hard experience in 
the real world.

I'd be interested to hear what the original responder has to say about this.

lipska

-- 
Lipska the Kat©: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer
and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun

Thread

Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? "SL@maxis" <noreply@my-rialto.com> - 2012-12-25 01:04 +0800
  Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-24 12:37 -0500
    Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? "SL@maxis" <ecp_gen@my-rialto.com> - 2012-12-25 04:32 +0800
      Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2012-12-26 23:20 -0800
        Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-27 21:05 -0500
        Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-27 21:07 -0500
          Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-27 21:13 -0800
            Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-28 11:07 -0500
              Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-28 09:14 -0800
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-28 18:18 -0500
          Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2012-12-28 00:41 -0800
            Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-28 11:14 -0500
            Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-28 17:50 +0000
              Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-12-28 21:22 +0100
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-28 21:08 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-12-28 22:55 +0100
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-28 18:02 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-29 08:55 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-29 20:40 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2012-12-31 20:08 -0400
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-31 19:33 -0500
              Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-28 17:51 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-29 11:37 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-29 11:39 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-29 22:22 -0800
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-29 20:34 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2012-12-29 08:22 -0400
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-29 13:00 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-29 20:54 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-30 11:02 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-30 20:33 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2012-12-31 19:54 -0400
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-29 20:43 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2012-12-31 19:06 -0400
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-31 19:29 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-01-01 01:46 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-31 21:35 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-01 09:22 -0400
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-04 19:46 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> - 2013-01-05 08:22 +0800
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-04 19:59 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-04 20:01 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-01-05 01:32 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-01-06 10:27 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-06 10:29 -0400
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-01-06 16:29 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-06 13:46 -0400
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-01-06 18:44 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-06 21:10 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-01-07 09:04 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-01-06 09:53 -0800
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-01-06 18:21 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-06 21:07 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Twirlip of the Mists <twirlip@killfile.me.now.invalid> - 2013-01-06 21:18 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-06 21:28 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Twirlip of the Mists <twirlip@killfile.me.now.invalid> - 2013-01-06 21:58 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-06 22:04 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Twirlip of the Mists <twirlip@killfile.me.now.invalid> - 2013-01-06 22:10 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-01-07 08:34 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-01-07 08:25 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-06 10:34 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-01-06 16:46 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-06 21:05 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-01-06 17:10 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-06 14:04 -0400
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-06 21:03 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-07 07:01 -0400
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-01-07 11:11 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-01-07 14:25 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> - 2013-01-05 08:05 +0800
  Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-12-24 11:06 -0800
    Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-12-24 23:33 +0100
      Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2012-12-24 18:15 -0500
        Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-12-25 10:43 +0100
      Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-12-25 13:21 -0800
  Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-01-01 12:29 -0800

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