Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #20797

Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ?

From	Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject	Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ?
References	(3 earlier) <50dbf6d1$0$80176$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> <50dcfecc$0$292$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> <50dd5b51$0$80184$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> <raadnU-8Z6xqRkDNnZ2dnUVZ8madnZ2d@bt.com> <50de2260$0$293$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID	<JfBDs.90567$2v.68591@newsfe05.iad> (permalink)
Organization	Public Usenet Newsgroup Access
Date	2012-12-29 08:22 -0400

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On 12/28/2012 06:51 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 12/28/2012 12:50 PM, lipska the kat wrote:
>> What I inevitably end up with is a slightly less that perfect decoupling
>> but I like to think that eventually, given the appearance of a truly
>> scalable way to persist entire Object trees I will be able to produce a
>> business system that will be completely decoupled from earthly
>> considerations like UI and database
>
> I thought a business logic layer by definition was separate
> from UI layer and data access layer.
>
> :-)
>
> Arne
>
I do such a heavy combination of SOA and web app work that I like layers 
that work for both. For my purposes Martin Fowler's Service/Application 
layer picture (http://martinfowler.com/eaaCatalog/serviceLayer.html) 
serves nicely as a starting point.

In that picture business logic is mostly in the Domain/Model layer, 
including business rules, and the Service/Application layer consists of 
operations that cannot be assigned to any one given domain object.

I see a good, solid Service/Application layer as being one that actually 
provides services in the SOA sense. Not web services, but _services_. 
These then become available for orchestration in different ways.

In a web app scenario, and I stress that this is *my* approach, the MVC 
Model is generally the Fowlerian Service layer (plus everything inside 
it) + extra stuff that is perhaps best characterized as a view-model.

Equally well you can provide a web service endpoint thin layer - 
basically just the stuff to provide REST or SOAP access to consumers - 
that exposes the Service Layer.

Anything can stitch together (orchestrate) the service layer operations 
available through either mechanism.

I emphatically don't delineate layers by technology used, or even by 
location. A clean, understandable architectural picture can deal with, 
and explain, business logic in Javascript on a mobile browser, and also 
business logic in a DB stored procedure.

AHS

Thread

Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? "SL@maxis" <noreply@my-rialto.com> - 2012-12-25 01:04 +0800
  Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-24 12:37 -0500
    Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? "SL@maxis" <ecp_gen@my-rialto.com> - 2012-12-25 04:32 +0800
      Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2012-12-26 23:20 -0800
        Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-27 21:05 -0500
        Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-27 21:07 -0500
          Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-27 21:13 -0800
            Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-28 11:07 -0500
              Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-28 09:14 -0800
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-28 18:18 -0500
          Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2012-12-28 00:41 -0800
            Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-28 11:14 -0500
            Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-28 17:50 +0000
              Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-12-28 21:22 +0100
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-28 21:08 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-12-28 22:55 +0100
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-28 18:02 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-29 08:55 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-29 20:40 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2012-12-31 20:08 -0400
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-31 19:33 -0500
              Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-28 17:51 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-29 11:37 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-29 11:39 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2012-12-29 22:22 -0800
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-29 20:34 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2012-12-29 08:22 -0400
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-29 13:00 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-29 20:54 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-30 11:02 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-30 20:33 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2012-12-31 19:54 -0400
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-29 20:43 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2012-12-31 19:06 -0400
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-31 19:29 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-01-01 01:46 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-12-31 21:35 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-01 09:22 -0400
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-04 19:46 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> - 2013-01-05 08:22 +0800
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-04 19:59 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-04 20:01 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-01-05 01:32 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-01-06 10:27 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-06 10:29 -0400
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-01-06 16:29 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-06 13:46 -0400
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-01-06 18:44 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-06 21:10 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-01-07 09:04 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-01-06 09:53 -0800
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-01-06 18:21 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-06 21:07 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Twirlip of the Mists <twirlip@killfile.me.now.invalid> - 2013-01-06 21:18 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-06 21:28 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Twirlip of the Mists <twirlip@killfile.me.now.invalid> - 2013-01-06 21:58 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-06 22:04 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Twirlip of the Mists <twirlip@killfile.me.now.invalid> - 2013-01-06 22:10 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-01-07 08:34 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-01-07 08:25 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-06 10:34 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-01-06 16:46 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-06 21:05 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-01-06 17:10 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-06 14:04 -0400
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-06 21:03 -0500
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-07 07:01 -0400
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-01-07 11:11 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-01-07 14:25 +0000
                Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> - 2013-01-05 08:05 +0800
  Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-12-24 11:06 -0800
    Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-12-24 23:33 +0100
      Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2012-12-24 18:15 -0500
        Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2012-12-25 10:43 +0100
      Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-12-25 13:21 -0800
  Re: Java servlet on browsers: dying or kicking ? Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-01-01 12:29 -0800

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