Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #4141

Re: Did the sort do anything?

From	Lew <noone@lewscanon.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject	Re: Did the sort do anything?
Date	2011-05-15 22:40 -0400
Organization	albasani.net
Message-ID	<iqq2rb$ja5$1@news.albasani.net> (permalink)
References	(3 earlier) <iqnh0d$m0m$1@news.albasani.net> <alpine.DEB.2.00.1105151117070.12373@urchin.earth.li> <iqobot$ugm$2@news.albasani.net> <alpine.DEB.2.00.1105151501220.12373@urchin.earth.li> <iqq244$jhm$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>

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Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> Tom Anderson wrote:
>> Basically, Dijkstra was a brilliant guy, but a bit of a bastard.

> He was right about gotos being harmful, but I’m still not sure I understand

He was stretching a point to make a point, of course, and the considered 
reader will factor that in.

You cannot have a useful computer program without gotos.  It was the 
willy-nilly, undisciplined, wild goto that Dijkstra deprecated.  He 
specifically states, "The unbridled use of the go to statement has as an 
immediate consequence that it becomes terribly hard to find a meaningful set 
of coordinates in which to describe the process progress."  Note that he's 
speaking of "unbridled" use.

Great word.

The solution, of course, is to harness the goto as one would a horse - confine 
it to the traces of an 'if', 'for', 'while', 'do', 'switch', or method.

> his remark that “computer science is no more about computers than astronomy
> is about telescopes”.

He's saying the science is about the science, not the instrument used.  He's 
also being intentionally coy.  Surely you recognize the pattern.

-- 
Lew
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Friz.jpg

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Did the sort do anything? Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-05-10 08:06 -0700
  Re: Did the sort do anything? markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-10 08:48 -0700
    Re: Did the sort do anything? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-14 15:33 +1200
      Re: Did the sort do anything? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-14 08:56 -0400
        Re: Did the sort do anything? Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-05-14 13:54 +0000
          Re: Did the sort do anything? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-15 11:16 +1200
      Re: Did the sort do anything? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-14 23:24 -0400
        Re: Did the sort do anything? Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-05-15 11:20 +0100
          Re: Did the sort do anything? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-15 07:00 -0400
            Re: Did the sort do anything? Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-05-15 15:09 +0100
              Re: Did the sort do anything? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-16 14:28 +1200
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-05-15 22:38 -0400
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-16 19:11 +1200
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-16 03:47 -0400
                Re: Did the sort do anything? markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-16 14:14 -0700
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-15 22:40 -0400
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-05-16 21:31 +0100
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-17 09:12 +1200
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-16 17:24 -0400
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-05-17 13:26 +0100
          Re: Did the sort do anything? markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-15 04:56 -0700
            Re: Did the sort do anything? Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-05-15 15:12 +0100
              Re: Did the sort do anything? markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-15 07:52 -0700
          Re: Did the sort do anything? Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> - 2011-05-18 11:14 -0400
            Re: Did the sort do anything? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-18 13:02 -0400
            Re: Did the sort do anything? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-20 18:49 +1200
              Re: Did the sort do anything? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-05-20 00:06 -0700
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-20 22:37 +1200
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-20 07:09 -0400
  Re: Did the sort do anything? Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-05-10 16:11 +0000
  Re: Did the sort do anything? Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid> - 2011-05-10 21:26 +0200
    Re: Did the sort do anything? Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-05-11 21:38 +0100
      Re: Did the sort do anything? Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid> - 2011-05-11 23:27 +0200
      Re: Did the sort do anything? Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-05-13 07:40 -0700
        Re: Did the sort do anything? Spock <spock@starfleet.ufp> - 2011-05-13 16:56 -0400
        Re: Did the sort do anything? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-15 13:58 +1200
          Re: Did the sort do anything? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-14 23:27 -0400
  Re: Did the sort do anything? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-05-11 20:40 +0200
    Re: Did the sort do anything? Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-05-12 10:40 -0400
      Re: Did the sort do anything? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-05-13 03:50 -0700
      Re: Did the sort do anything? Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-05-13 07:46 -0700
        Re: Did the sort do anything? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-16 14:32 +1200
          Re: Did the sort do anything? Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-05-15 19:50 -0700
            Re: Did the sort do anything? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-16 17:57 +1200
              Re: Did the sort do anything? "javax.swing.JSnarker" <gharriman@boojum.mit.edu> - 2011-05-16 03:35 -0400
              Re: Did the sort do anything? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-16 03:44 -0400
              Re: Did the sort do anything? Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-05-16 03:53 -0700
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-17 00:02 +1200
                Re: Did the sort do anything? "javax.swing.JSnarker" <gharriman@boojum.mit.edu> - 2011-05-16 08:05 -0400
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-17 09:12 +1200
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-16 17:32 -0400
                Re: Did the sort do anything? thoolen <thoolen@tholenbot.thorium> - 2011-05-16 18:09 -0400
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-16 10:02 -0400
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-05-16 07:16 -0700
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-17 09:11 +1200
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-05-16 15:00 -0700
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-16 21:08 -0400
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-17 19:11 +1200
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-05-17 02:34 -0700
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-17 07:19 -0400
                [OT] Naming conventions. Was: Re: Did the sort do anything? Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-05-17 06:52 -0700
                Re: Naming conventions. Was: Re: Did the sort do anything? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-05-18 01:22 -0700
                Re: Naming conventions. Was: Re: Did the sort do anything? Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-05-18 03:42 -0700
                Re: Naming conventions. Was: Re: Did the sort do anything? RedGrittyBrick <RedGrittyBrick@spamweary.invalid> - 2011-05-18 11:53 +0100
                Re: Naming conventions. Was: Re: Did the sort do anything? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-18 13:07 -0400
                Re: Naming conventions. Was: Re: Did the sort do anything? Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-05-18 10:37 -0700
                Re: Naming conventions. Was: Re: Did the sort do anything? Heike Svensson <hsvensson.1093x1_q@hotmail.nospam.com.please> - 2011-05-19 01:29 -0400
                Re: Naming conventions. Was: Re: Did the sort do anything? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-05-19 08:28 +0200
                Re: Naming conventions. Was: Re: Did the sort do anything? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-19 08:50 -0400
                OT: National stereotypes. Was Re: Naming conventions. Was: Re: Did the sort do anything? RedGrittyBrick <RedGrittyBrick@spamweary.invalid> - 2011-05-23 10:25 +0100
                Re: OT: National stereotypes. Was Re: Naming conventions. Was: Re: Did the sort do anything? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-23 09:05 -0400
                Re: OT: National stereotypes. Was Re: Naming conventions. Was: Re: Did the sort do anything? RedGrittyBrick <RedGrittyBrick@spamweary.invalid> - 2011-05-23 17:17 +0100
                Re: OT: National stereotypes. Was Re: Naming conventions. Was: Re: Did the sort do anything? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-23 14:43 -0400
                Re: OT: National stereotypes. Was Re: Naming conventions. Was: Re: Did the sort do anything? Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> - 2011-05-23 08:27 -0700
                Re: OT: National stereotypes. Was Re: Naming conventions. Was: Re: Did the sort do anything? RedGrittyBrick <RedGrittyBrick@spamweary.invalid> - 2011-05-23 17:39 +0100
                Re: OT: National stereotypes. Was Re: Naming conventions. Was: Re:   Did the sort do anything? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-05-23 19:16 +0200
                Re: OT: National stereotypes. Was Re: Naming conventions. Was: Re: Did the sort do anything? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-23 14:47 -0400
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Boojum <boojum42@gmai1.c0m> - 2011-05-18 07:19 -0400
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-20 18:46 +1200
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-20 07:10 -0400
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-17 07:16 -0400
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-05-17 06:56 -0700
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-20 18:46 +1200
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-20 07:11 -0400
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-05-20 05:00 -0700
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-05-20 05:20 -0700
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-21 09:56 +1200
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-20 18:12 -0400
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-05-20 21:26 -0700
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Gheerax IV <gheerax.4@gmail.invalid> - 2011-05-17 06:58 +0000
                Re: Did the sort do anything? Unitary Matrix <umatrix668@gmail.com> - 2011-05-17 00:13 -0700
                Re: Did the sort do anything? markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-17 07:41 -0700
    Re: Did the sort do anything? Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-05-13 07:42 -0700
      Re: Did the sort do anything? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-05-13 21:28 +0200
  Re: Did the sort do anything? Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-05-11 21:32 +0100

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