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Re: Editable issues

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On 01/30/2013 09:04 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 1/30/2013 6:34 PM, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
>> On 01/30/2013 12:32 PM, Lew wrote:
>>> Arved Sandstrom wrote:
>>>> Arne Vajh�j wrote:
>>>>> I strongly suspect that it is not:
>>>>> lack of GUI builder tools => desire to hand write Swing code
>>>>> but instead:
>>>>> desire to hand write Swing code => lack of GUI builder tools
>>>>
>>>> If I parse your English correctly, Arne, you're suggesting that folks
>>>> *prefer* to code Swing directly rather than make use of GUI builder
>>>> interfaces?
>>>
>>> No, he's suggesting that in this particular case the person might be
>>> deliberately
>>> doing it by hand. I guess programmers do that when they want to learn
>>> what they're
>>> actually doing.
>>>
>>>> Man, I'm not sure I buy that. I've suffered through writing Swing code
>>>> from scratch a few times, I don't see how it's any more useful to do
>>>> that than hand-coding JSF Facelets .xhtml and backing bean boilerplate.
>>>> Which is to say, not useful at all. You gain nothing over using GUI
>>>> builder tools, and you lose time better spent on real logic.
>>>
>>> Yes, even you have written Swing by hand. What's so odd that others
>>> might also?
>>>
>>> Didn't the experience teach you about Swing? That wasn't useful?
>>>
>> During the learning phase, sure. Makes sense.
>>
>> But in routine work, once I've gotten the technology, no, I don't want
>> to write all the tedious boilerplate. Swing, JSF, JPA etc - I generate
>> as much as I can if I can, or I wish I could if it's not possible. All I
>> really want to spend my time on is modifying the generated code.
>
> That requires the generated code to be as good as handwritten code
> to work.
>
> That is rarely the case.
>
> Arne
>
>
I disagree that the generated code needs to be as good as handwritten 
code. Handwritten code at what stage - initial layout? Final layout? 
Styled and beautiful? All the actions added? Actions all do something real?

You see my argument? At what point do you consider the handwritten code 
to be done?

What I see as a complete waste of time is handwriting the code for 
layout, for geometry. The generated code only has to give you an 
initial, compilable decent representation of layout, that is all. It 
doesn't have to be as good as several of the later hand-tuned stages.

AHS

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Editable issues K <kalezwe@gmail.com> - 2013-01-28 21:19 -0800
  Re: Editable issues Mikhail Vladimirov <vladimirow@mail.ru> - 2013-01-28 22:21 -0800
    Re: Editable issues Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2013-01-28 23:17 -0800
      Re: Editable issues Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-29 06:27 -0400
        Re: Editable issues Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-29 22:02 -0500
          Re: Editable issues Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-30 07:38 -0400
            Re: Editable issues Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-01-30 08:32 -0800
              Re: Editable issues Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-30 19:34 -0400
                Re: Editable issues Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-30 20:04 -0500
                Re: Editable issues Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-31 06:21 -0400
                Re: Editable issues Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-31 11:10 -0500
              Re: Editable issues Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-01-31 04:15 -0800
                Re: Editable issues Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2013-01-31 07:26 -0800
                Re: Editable issues Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-31 11:04 -0500
                Re: Editable issues Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2013-01-31 16:54 -0800
                Re: Editable issues Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-02-01 04:59 -0400
                Re: Editable issues Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-02-01 20:08 -0500
                Re: Editable issues Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-02-01 21:54 -0400
                Re: Editable issues Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-02-02 12:21 -0500
                Re: Editable issues Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-02-02 15:37 -0400
                Re: Editable issues Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2013-02-01 18:12 -0800
                Re: Editable issues Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-02-01 20:33 -0800
                Re: Editable issues Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2013-02-01 23:39 -0800
                Re: Editable issues Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-02-02 12:16 -0500
                Re: Editable issues Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2013-02-02 09:59 -0800
                Re: Editable issues Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-02-02 21:05 -0500
                Re: Editable issues Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2013-02-04 14:18 -0800
                Re: Editable issues Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-02-04 18:23 -0500
                Re: Editable issues Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2013-02-04 14:11 -0800
                Re: Editable issues Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-02-04 18:17 -0500
                Re: Editable issues Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-02-01 05:05 -0800
            Re: Editable issues Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-30 20:03 -0500
  Re: Editable issues Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-01-29 02:38 -0800

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