Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #21614

Re: The Revenge of the Geeks

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From	Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca>
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Subject	Re: The Revenge of the Geeks
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Cross-posted to 4 groups.

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On 01/23/2013 02:21 AM, BGB wrote:
> On 1/22/2013 11:33 PM, Kevin McMurtrie wrote:
>> In article
>> <f803af84-fa9a-456b-a140-5a2a3b3ae84b@k4g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
>>   Ramon F Herrera <ramon@conexus.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Oracle has getting a lot of attacks.
>>>
>>>      "A close look at how Oracle installs deceptive software with Java
>>> updates"
>>>
>>> http://www.zdnet.com/a-close-look-at-how-oracle-installs-deceptive-software-wi
>>>
>>> th-java-updates-7000010038/?s_cid=e539
>>>
>>> I can fathom how a software like Java could end up in the hands of a
>>> company like Oracle...
>>>
>>> -Ramon
>>
>> Thankfully, I don't run Windows anywhere so I don't get this.  I'm
>> surprised they don't bundle an AltaVista toolbar and a GIF clipart
>> library from back in the days when desktop shovelware was common.
>>
>> Yes, it is a shame that Oracle runs Java but Sun wasn't so great at it
>> either.  Both pushed for high cost, high complexity "enterprise edition"
>> libraries that come and go like fashion but dragged their feet on
>> streamlining the language itself.
>>
>
> much agreed...
>
> the lack of "streamlining" of the core language is admittedly one of my
> bigger complaints about Java at present.
>
> this is along with what few new features are added to the core language
> (and to the JVM) are IMO far too often via ugly hacks.

I'm not too worried about Java the language being close to stagnant, so 
long as library development is up to par. Because if the solution I've 
selected includes the JVM, then often Scala or Clojure are better 
choices for high-productivity coding. Myself I don't care if Java the 
language ever gets updated again - it's not important. The innovation 
shifted away from Java the language years ago; there are better JVM 
options now.

So I would disagree with both you and Kevin that "streamlining" the core 
language is all that important. You can't do enough of it to core Java 
to make it worthwhile, without major changes. So why bother now? What's 
important actually *are* those "high cost, high complexity EE 
libraries", plus the later SE/EE-agnostic libraries like concurrency.

90% of developer productivity is achieved by adept and informed use of 
what other people have written: libraries.

AHS

Thread

The Revenge of the Geeks Ramon F Herrera <ramon@conexus.net> - 2013-01-22 06:41 -0800
  Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2013-01-22 14:55 +0000
    Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-22 22:29 -0500
  Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Ramon F Herrera <ramon@conexus.net> - 2013-01-22 06:58 -0800
  Re: The Revenge of the Geeks joel garry <joel-garry@home.com> - 2013-01-22 08:54 -0800
    Re: The Revenge of the Geeks cipher <cipher@nospamforme.org> - 2013-01-23 00:07 +0000
      Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-01-22 17:02 -0800
        Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-22 22:23 -0500
        Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-22 21:30 -0600
      Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-22 22:26 -0500
        Re: The Revenge of the Geeks cipher <cipher@nospamforme.org> - 2013-01-24 00:51 +0000
          Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-23 20:01 -0500
            Re: The Revenge of the Geeks cipher <cipher@nospamforme.org> - 2013-01-24 01:10 +0000
              Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-23 20:20 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks cipher <cipher@nospamforme.org> - 2013-01-24 12:15 +0000
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2013-01-24 07:37 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-01-24 12:55 +0000
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks cipher <cipher@nospamforme.org> - 2013-01-24 14:40 +0000
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2013-01-24 10:01 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-24 10:24 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-24 10:35 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-24 10:56 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Stuart <DerTopper@web.de> - 2013-01-30 23:54 +0100
  Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-22 22:32 -0500
  Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2013-01-22 21:33 -0800
    Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-23 00:21 -0600
      Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-23 05:25 -0400
        Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-23 04:35 -0600
          Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-23 20:17 -0500
            Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-23 22:47 -0600
              Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-24 06:03 -0400
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-24 04:44 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-24 11:10 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-01-24 10:49 +0000
              Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-24 11:06 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-24 16:10 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-24 17:30 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-24 17:44 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-24 17:49 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-24 17:58 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-24 21:10 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-24 22:15 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-24 22:31 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-01-24 23:57 -0800
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-25 22:05 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-25 23:31 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-26 07:25 -0400
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-26 12:40 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-26 21:34 -0400
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-26 22:06 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-26 09:12 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-26 14:47 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-26 16:23 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-26 15:24 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-26 21:47 -0400
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-26 22:11 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-26 22:54 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-27 07:46 -0400
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-27 12:47 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-27 19:40 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-27 21:16 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-29 22:05 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-30 03:22 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-30 20:12 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-31 02:22 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-02-01 20:12 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2013-02-04 14:09 -0800
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-02-04 18:28 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-02-05 01:57 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2013-02-05 09:55 -0800
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-27 19:37 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-01-27 10:38 +0000
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-27 13:09 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-27 19:47 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-27 19:45 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-26 07:26 -0400
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-26 13:22 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-01-26 12:57 -0800
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-26 16:15 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-26 22:04 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-27 00:38 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-27 19:35 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-27 21:04 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-26 16:34 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-26 17:04 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-26 22:14 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-27 01:38 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-01-27 13:13 +0000
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-27 13:59 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-24 22:17 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-24 23:06 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-25 22:10 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-26 00:31 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-01-24 19:42 -0800
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-24 23:22 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-01-25 00:03 -0800
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-25 02:41 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-24 19:31 -0400
              Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-01-24 11:30 -0800
        Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-23 20:13 -0500
          Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-24 15:31 -0400
            Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-24 14:37 -0500
    Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-23 20:09 -0500
  Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-01-24 04:30 -0800
    Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-25 02:45 -0600
      Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-01-27 23:33 -0800

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