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Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #21744

Re: The Revenge of the Geeks

From BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.sys.mac.advocacy, comp.databases.oracle.server, comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject Re: The Revenge of the Geeks
Date 2013-01-26 12:40 -0600
Organization albasani.net
Message-ID <ke1811$g4n$1@news.albasani.net> (permalink)
References (11 earlier) <5101f8d3$0$293$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> <kdt1t7$m7e$1@news.albasani.net> <5103480d$0$284$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> <kdvppm$80q$1@news.albasani.net> <23PMs.86405$sm1.44698@newsfe22.iad>

Cross-posted to 4 groups.

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On 1/26/2013 5:25 AM, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
> On 01/26/2013 01:31 AM, BGB wrote:
>> On 1/25/2013 9:05 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> On 1/24/2013 11:31 PM, BGB wrote:
>>>> On 1/24/2013 9:15 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>>> On 1/24/2013 10:10 PM, BGB wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/24/2013 4:58 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/24/2013 5:10 PM, BGB wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 1/24/2013 10:06 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 1/23/2013 11:47 PM, BGB wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> but, in any case, with the other languages there are a wide
>>>>>>>>>> range of
>>>>>>>>>> libraries available, many under fairly open licenses (like MIT or
>>>>>>>>>> BSD),
>>>>>>>>>> and there is a lot more GPL stuff available,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In the EE space you would need to look at CORBA or DCOM.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You would prefer Java EE believe me.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> errm, so you can't just copy all the files over to ones' servers?
>>>>>>>> and/or
>>>>>>>> recompile the code for ones' servers?...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The coding model in Java EE is definitely more modern than that
>>>>>>> of CORBA and DCOM.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I didn't mean like CORBA or DCOM, but probably directly copying over
>>>>>> program binaries (DLLs or SOs and precompiled binaries and similar),
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> probably using traditional compilation and linking.
>>>>>
>>>>> You lost me.
>>>>>
>>>>> How to get the same type of services as Java EE provides is related
>>>>> to copying binaries how?
>>>>
>>>> I may be missing something here...
>>>>
>>>> because... it involves linking against and using libraries, correct?...
>>>>
>>>> like "both languages have libraries, but maybe not the same libraries".
>>>>
>>>> as in, for Java, you can copy around and use a JAR.
>>>> or in C or C++, you link against the DLL or SO, or use a static-library
>>>> (which then becomes a permanent part of the binary), ...
>>>>
>>>> like, for Java there is LWOGL, and for C there is "opengl32.dll".
>>>> or, one person uses AWT or Swing, and another uses GDI+ or WinForms.
>>>>
>>>> if you have some program and need to run it on a web-server, it can be
>>>> copied over into its "cgi-bin/" directory or similar, or set it to run
>>>> at start-up as a deamon (or a as a service on Windows, or launch it via
>>>> "start-up applications" or similar).
>>>>
>>>> if end users run a program, they typically download it off the
>>>> internet,
>>>> maybe as a ZIP, or maybe as a self-extracting "setup.exe" or similar.
>>>>
>>>> any libraries would be contained inside, and copied over into the
>>>> relevant directories. any data files are typically copied along as
>>>> well,
>>>> and the installer might put everything in its place.
>>>>
>>>> and, if a person needs new libraries for a project they are developing,
>>>> they will go and download them off the internet, maybe recompile it
>>>> from
>>>> source, ...
>>>
>>> You copy jar files in Java EE just like you do in Java SE.
>>>
>>> The difference is in what the libraries do. Not how they are
>>> distributed.
>>>
>>
>> yes, ok.
>>
>>
>>>> I actually have little idea how DCOM or CORBA fits into this, as they
>>>> are network protocols (like for doing RPC),
>>>
>>> They are not.
>>>
>>> CORBA is a component model that uses IIOP as network protocol.
>>>
>>> DCOM is a component model that uses ncacn_tcp as network protocol.
>>>
>>
>> fair enough...
>>
>> I haven't really used either of them personally, FWIW.
>>
>> I will assume then that they are probably for inter-operation with other
>> servers or similar?
> [ SNIP ]
>
> Both CORBA and DCOM are meant for distributed applications. Like Arne
> said, both have to do with software components on numerous different
> machines, possibly different languages, and having defined interfaces
> for RPC. Myself I wouldn't even use the term "server" to explain what
> DCOM and CORBA do, not at a high level.
>

if it is on a different machine, and is providing something for being 
accessed over a network, wouldn't that machine be by definition a server?


>>>> but, for most client/server apps I am familiar with are more like:
>>>> server runs somewhere (opening a listen port, for example, port 80 for
>>>> HTTP, ...);
>>>> user downloads and runs client;
>>>> client opens socket to connect to server (such as TCP or UDP);
>>>> then they share whatever data is relevant over the socket, using the
>>>> relevant protocol (often application-specific).
>>>>
> [ SNIP ]
>>>
>>> Let me give you a very simple example.
>>>
>>> You want to allow browsers to connect to your code and be
>>> told what the time is.
>>>
>>> You could write that in Java SE. You listen on port 80, accept
>>> a connection, start a thread that parse the request and outout
>>> the response.
>>>
>>> With Java EE you could write now.jsp:
>>>
>>> <%=new Date()%>
>>>
>>> and Java EE would handle sockets, threads, reading and writing for
>>> you.
>>>
>>> The JSP get compiled to Java that get compiled to byte code that
>>> get JIT compiled.
>>>
>>
>> ok, so it does something sort of like a web-server then, but with Java
>> taking the role of PHP or similar?
>>
>> I guess maybe that has to do with the whole "application server" thing,
>> which was another part I didn't really understand what it was doing
>> exactly...
> [ SNIP ]
>
> Don't make the mistake of thinking that Java EE == web application.
> Although I expect that a lot of Java coders who write only web apps in
> the Java EE space may get to thinking that way.
>
> Your typical Java EE enterprise app running on top of a Java EE
> application server may or may not have a web tier. Just like servers
> written in other languages on other platforms may often also have
> nothing whatsoever to do with HTTP and HTML and web browsers.
>
> But I suppose if you look at the numbers of Java EE app deployments,
> I'll speculate that the very large majority are web apps or at least
> incorporate one.
>

ok, but all this is still a bit outside my area.


> Since you mentioned PHP, and Arne mentioned JSP, you're aware that you
> might run a PHP app on Apache with mod_php. Think of that latter as
> being your app server. Similarly, if you want to run an ASP.NET MVC app,
> you might set up an IIS website for it - IIS is your app server. In the
> case of Java EE web apps using JSP as a view technology (with or without
> JSF in the picture) then a Java EE server is your application/web server.
>

I think I may have enabled mod_php, partly as IIRC the MediaWiki 
installation instructions said to do something like this (along with 
which things to install, ...).


I have not personally messed with IIS or ASP.NET.

the vast majority of code I have written in C# has been either small 
tools (command-line or sometimes with a GUI), or Paint.NET plugins.

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Thread

The Revenge of the Geeks Ramon F Herrera <ramon@conexus.net> - 2013-01-22 06:41 -0800
  Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2013-01-22 14:55 +0000
    Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-22 22:29 -0500
  Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Ramon F Herrera <ramon@conexus.net> - 2013-01-22 06:58 -0800
  Re: The Revenge of the Geeks joel garry <joel-garry@home.com> - 2013-01-22 08:54 -0800
    Re: The Revenge of the Geeks cipher <cipher@nospamforme.org> - 2013-01-23 00:07 +0000
      Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-01-22 17:02 -0800
        Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-22 22:23 -0500
        Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-22 21:30 -0600
      Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-22 22:26 -0500
        Re: The Revenge of the Geeks cipher <cipher@nospamforme.org> - 2013-01-24 00:51 +0000
          Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-23 20:01 -0500
            Re: The Revenge of the Geeks cipher <cipher@nospamforme.org> - 2013-01-24 01:10 +0000
              Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-23 20:20 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks cipher <cipher@nospamforme.org> - 2013-01-24 12:15 +0000
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2013-01-24 07:37 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-01-24 12:55 +0000
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks cipher <cipher@nospamforme.org> - 2013-01-24 14:40 +0000
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2013-01-24 10:01 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-24 10:24 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-24 10:35 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-24 10:56 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Stuart <DerTopper@web.de> - 2013-01-30 23:54 +0100
  Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-22 22:32 -0500
  Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2013-01-22 21:33 -0800
    Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-23 00:21 -0600
      Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-23 05:25 -0400
        Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-23 04:35 -0600
          Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-23 20:17 -0500
            Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-23 22:47 -0600
              Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-24 06:03 -0400
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-24 04:44 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-24 11:10 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-01-24 10:49 +0000
              Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-24 11:06 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-24 16:10 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-24 17:30 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-24 17:44 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-24 17:49 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-24 17:58 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-24 21:10 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-24 22:15 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-24 22:31 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-01-24 23:57 -0800
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-25 22:05 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-25 23:31 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-26 07:25 -0400
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-26 12:40 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-26 21:34 -0400
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-26 22:06 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-26 09:12 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-26 14:47 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-26 16:23 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-26 15:24 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-26 21:47 -0400
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-26 22:11 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-26 22:54 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-27 07:46 -0400
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-27 12:47 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-27 19:40 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-27 21:16 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-29 22:05 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-30 03:22 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-30 20:12 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-31 02:22 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-02-01 20:12 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2013-02-04 14:09 -0800
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-02-04 18:28 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-02-05 01:57 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2013-02-05 09:55 -0800
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-27 19:37 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-01-27 10:38 +0000
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-27 13:09 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-27 19:47 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-27 19:45 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-26 07:26 -0400
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-26 13:22 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-01-26 12:57 -0800
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-26 16:15 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-26 22:04 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-27 00:38 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-27 19:35 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-27 21:04 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-26 16:34 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-26 17:04 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-26 22:14 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-27 01:38 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-01-27 13:13 +0000
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-27 13:59 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-24 22:17 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-24 23:06 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-25 22:10 -0500
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-26 00:31 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-01-24 19:42 -0800
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-24 23:22 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-01-25 00:03 -0800
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-25 02:41 -0600
                Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-24 19:31 -0400
              Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-01-24 11:30 -0800
        Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-23 20:13 -0500
          Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-24 15:31 -0400
            Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-24 14:37 -0500
    Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-23 20:09 -0500
  Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-01-24 04:30 -0800
    Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-25 02:45 -0600
      Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-01-27 23:33 -0800

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