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Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #21744
| From | BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.sys.mac.advocacy, comp.databases.oracle.server, comp.lang.java.programmer |
| Subject | Re: The Revenge of the Geeks |
| Date | 2013-01-26 12:40 -0600 |
| Organization | albasani.net |
| Message-ID | <ke1811$g4n$1@news.albasani.net> (permalink) |
| References | (11 earlier) <5101f8d3$0$293$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> <kdt1t7$m7e$1@news.albasani.net> <5103480d$0$284$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> <kdvppm$80q$1@news.albasani.net> <23PMs.86405$sm1.44698@newsfe22.iad> |
Cross-posted to 4 groups.
On 1/26/2013 5:25 AM, Arved Sandstrom wrote: > On 01/26/2013 01:31 AM, BGB wrote: >> On 1/25/2013 9:05 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>> On 1/24/2013 11:31 PM, BGB wrote: >>>> On 1/24/2013 9:15 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>>>> On 1/24/2013 10:10 PM, BGB wrote: >>>>>> On 1/24/2013 4:58 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>>>>>> On 1/24/2013 5:10 PM, BGB wrote: >>>>>>>> On 1/24/2013 10:06 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 1/23/2013 11:47 PM, BGB wrote: >>>>>>>>>> but, in any case, with the other languages there are a wide >>>>>>>>>> range of >>>>>>>>>> libraries available, many under fairly open licenses (like MIT or >>>>>>>>>> BSD), >>>>>>>>>> and there is a lot more GPL stuff available, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In the EE space you would need to look at CORBA or DCOM. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You would prefer Java EE believe me. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> :-) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> errm, so you can't just copy all the files over to ones' servers? >>>>>>>> and/or >>>>>>>> recompile the code for ones' servers?... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The coding model in Java EE is definitely more modern than that >>>>>>> of CORBA and DCOM. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I didn't mean like CORBA or DCOM, but probably directly copying over >>>>>> program binaries (DLLs or SOs and precompiled binaries and similar), >>>>>> and >>>>>> probably using traditional compilation and linking. >>>>> >>>>> You lost me. >>>>> >>>>> How to get the same type of services as Java EE provides is related >>>>> to copying binaries how? >>>> >>>> I may be missing something here... >>>> >>>> because... it involves linking against and using libraries, correct?... >>>> >>>> like "both languages have libraries, but maybe not the same libraries". >>>> >>>> as in, for Java, you can copy around and use a JAR. >>>> or in C or C++, you link against the DLL or SO, or use a static-library >>>> (which then becomes a permanent part of the binary), ... >>>> >>>> like, for Java there is LWOGL, and for C there is "opengl32.dll". >>>> or, one person uses AWT or Swing, and another uses GDI+ or WinForms. >>>> >>>> if you have some program and need to run it on a web-server, it can be >>>> copied over into its "cgi-bin/" directory or similar, or set it to run >>>> at start-up as a deamon (or a as a service on Windows, or launch it via >>>> "start-up applications" or similar). >>>> >>>> if end users run a program, they typically download it off the >>>> internet, >>>> maybe as a ZIP, or maybe as a self-extracting "setup.exe" or similar. >>>> >>>> any libraries would be contained inside, and copied over into the >>>> relevant directories. any data files are typically copied along as >>>> well, >>>> and the installer might put everything in its place. >>>> >>>> and, if a person needs new libraries for a project they are developing, >>>> they will go and download them off the internet, maybe recompile it >>>> from >>>> source, ... >>> >>> You copy jar files in Java EE just like you do in Java SE. >>> >>> The difference is in what the libraries do. Not how they are >>> distributed. >>> >> >> yes, ok. >> >> >>>> I actually have little idea how DCOM or CORBA fits into this, as they >>>> are network protocols (like for doing RPC), >>> >>> They are not. >>> >>> CORBA is a component model that uses IIOP as network protocol. >>> >>> DCOM is a component model that uses ncacn_tcp as network protocol. >>> >> >> fair enough... >> >> I haven't really used either of them personally, FWIW. >> >> I will assume then that they are probably for inter-operation with other >> servers or similar? > [ SNIP ] > > Both CORBA and DCOM are meant for distributed applications. Like Arne > said, both have to do with software components on numerous different > machines, possibly different languages, and having defined interfaces > for RPC. Myself I wouldn't even use the term "server" to explain what > DCOM and CORBA do, not at a high level. > if it is on a different machine, and is providing something for being accessed over a network, wouldn't that machine be by definition a server? >>>> but, for most client/server apps I am familiar with are more like: >>>> server runs somewhere (opening a listen port, for example, port 80 for >>>> HTTP, ...); >>>> user downloads and runs client; >>>> client opens socket to connect to server (such as TCP or UDP); >>>> then they share whatever data is relevant over the socket, using the >>>> relevant protocol (often application-specific). >>>> > [ SNIP ] >>> >>> Let me give you a very simple example. >>> >>> You want to allow browsers to connect to your code and be >>> told what the time is. >>> >>> You could write that in Java SE. You listen on port 80, accept >>> a connection, start a thread that parse the request and outout >>> the response. >>> >>> With Java EE you could write now.jsp: >>> >>> <%=new Date()%> >>> >>> and Java EE would handle sockets, threads, reading and writing for >>> you. >>> >>> The JSP get compiled to Java that get compiled to byte code that >>> get JIT compiled. >>> >> >> ok, so it does something sort of like a web-server then, but with Java >> taking the role of PHP or similar? >> >> I guess maybe that has to do with the whole "application server" thing, >> which was another part I didn't really understand what it was doing >> exactly... > [ SNIP ] > > Don't make the mistake of thinking that Java EE == web application. > Although I expect that a lot of Java coders who write only web apps in > the Java EE space may get to thinking that way. > > Your typical Java EE enterprise app running on top of a Java EE > application server may or may not have a web tier. Just like servers > written in other languages on other platforms may often also have > nothing whatsoever to do with HTTP and HTML and web browsers. > > But I suppose if you look at the numbers of Java EE app deployments, > I'll speculate that the very large majority are web apps or at least > incorporate one. > ok, but all this is still a bit outside my area. > Since you mentioned PHP, and Arne mentioned JSP, you're aware that you > might run a PHP app on Apache with mod_php. Think of that latter as > being your app server. Similarly, if you want to run an ASP.NET MVC app, > you might set up an IIS website for it - IIS is your app server. In the > case of Java EE web apps using JSP as a view technology (with or without > JSF in the picture) then a Java EE server is your application/web server. > I think I may have enabled mod_php, partly as IIRC the MediaWiki installation instructions said to do something like this (along with which things to install, ...). I have not personally messed with IIS or ASP.NET. the vast majority of code I have written in C# has been either small tools (command-line or sometimes with a GUI), or Paint.NET plugins.
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The Revenge of the Geeks Ramon F Herrera <ramon@conexus.net> - 2013-01-22 06:41 -0800
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2013-01-22 14:55 +0000
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-22 22:29 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Ramon F Herrera <ramon@conexus.net> - 2013-01-22 06:58 -0800
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks joel garry <joel-garry@home.com> - 2013-01-22 08:54 -0800
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks cipher <cipher@nospamforme.org> - 2013-01-23 00:07 +0000
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-01-22 17:02 -0800
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-22 22:23 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-22 21:30 -0600
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-22 22:26 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks cipher <cipher@nospamforme.org> - 2013-01-24 00:51 +0000
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-23 20:01 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks cipher <cipher@nospamforme.org> - 2013-01-24 01:10 +0000
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-23 20:20 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks cipher <cipher@nospamforme.org> - 2013-01-24 12:15 +0000
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2013-01-24 07:37 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-01-24 12:55 +0000
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks cipher <cipher@nospamforme.org> - 2013-01-24 14:40 +0000
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2013-01-24 10:01 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-24 10:24 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-24 10:35 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-24 10:56 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Stuart <DerTopper@web.de> - 2013-01-30 23:54 +0100
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-22 22:32 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2013-01-22 21:33 -0800
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-23 00:21 -0600
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-23 05:25 -0400
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-23 04:35 -0600
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-23 20:17 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-23 22:47 -0600
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-24 06:03 -0400
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-24 04:44 -0600
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-24 11:10 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-01-24 10:49 +0000
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-24 11:06 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-24 16:10 -0600
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-24 17:30 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-24 17:44 -0600
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-24 17:49 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-24 17:58 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-24 21:10 -0600
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-24 22:15 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-24 22:31 -0600
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-01-24 23:57 -0800
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-25 22:05 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-25 23:31 -0600
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-26 07:25 -0400
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-26 12:40 -0600
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-26 21:34 -0400
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-26 22:06 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-26 09:12 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-26 14:47 -0600
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-26 16:23 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-26 15:24 -0600
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-26 21:47 -0400
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-26 22:11 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-26 22:54 -0600
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-27 07:46 -0400
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-27 12:47 -0600
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-27 19:40 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-27 21:16 -0600
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-29 22:05 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-30 03:22 -0600
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-30 20:12 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-31 02:22 -0600
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-02-01 20:12 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2013-02-04 14:09 -0800
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-02-04 18:28 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-02-05 01:57 -0600
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2013-02-05 09:55 -0800
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-27 19:37 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-01-27 10:38 +0000
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-27 13:09 -0600
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-27 19:47 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-27 19:45 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-26 07:26 -0400
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-26 13:22 -0600
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-01-26 12:57 -0800
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-26 16:15 -0600
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-26 22:04 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-27 00:38 -0600
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-27 19:35 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-27 21:04 -0600
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-26 16:34 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-26 17:04 -0600
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-26 22:14 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-27 01:38 -0600
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-01-27 13:13 +0000
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-27 13:59 -0600
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-24 22:17 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-24 23:06 -0600
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-25 22:10 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-26 00:31 -0600
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-01-24 19:42 -0800
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-24 23:22 -0600
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-01-25 00:03 -0800
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-25 02:41 -0600
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-24 19:31 -0400
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-01-24 11:30 -0800
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-23 20:13 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-01-24 15:31 -0400
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-24 14:37 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-23 20:09 -0500
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-01-24 04:30 -0800
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-25 02:45 -0600
Re: The Revenge of the Geeks Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-01-27 23:33 -0800
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