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Re: Volunteer for Java Development

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On Tuesday, December 27, 2011 3:13:03 PM UTC-8, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 12/24/2011 1:06 PM, Lew wrote:
> > On Friday, December 23, 2011 3:47:40 PM UTC-8, Qu0ll wrote:
> >> "Lew"  wrote in message
> >> news:31036852.221.1324660513125.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prfi34...
> >>
> >>> Spring sucks.
> >>>
> >>> Why not use good stuff instead?
> >>
> >> Care to elaborate on that postulation?
> >
> > Conclusion, not postulation.
> 
> Th difference between postulation and conclusion without the arguments
> seem rather small to me.

And yet you then cite the arguments I provided, so how is that "without the arguemnts", hm?

My statement came *with* the arguemnts, some of which you even agreed with, so what the frack are you on?

... on about?

> > I have used Spring on mnay projects.  It was always a tangled mess of obscure
> > references to extrinsic resources to obfuscate logic.  This may not be Spring's
> > fault, but it's a consistent result.
> 
> I have seen that too.
> >
> > Java EE annotations do everything Spring hopes to, only better, more simply,
> > with a more flowing mental model, in accordance with the standard.
> >
> > Slam-dunk, BOOYAH!
> >
> > Why add yet another framework that provides no additional benefit?  Burden of proof - you.
> 
> That argument is a little thin.

The lack of argument from the other side was what was thin.  The burden of proof is on the proponents of Spring, and you haven't lightened that burden an iota.  "That argument is a little thin" without the arguments to show why seems rather small to me.

> There are things in Spring that Java EE annotations does not.

What, exactly, and is it worth it?  C'mon man, don't be so vague.

> And besides that there are also something weird called Java SE apps
> that does not benefit much from stuff provided by Java EE containers.

Not so much, really.  The EJB annotations obviously don't help SE much, and dependency injection and JPA are available for SE, which I find sufficient if it keeps out of the Spring morass.

WEhile it's not literally true that Spring brings nothing new to the table, it is true enough not to justify the cost of using it to me.

Perhaps instead of vaguely waving at what you think is insufficient about non-Spring alternatives, could you be specific about what is missing for Java SE that Spring provides and gives enough benefit to justify Spring over the alternatives?  It's pretty easy to gainsay whatever anyone else says, somewhat more challenging to contribute affirmatively.

-- 
Lew

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Volunteer for Java Development Sarkar <virtexamit@gmail.com> - 2011-12-22 09:25 -0800
  Re: Volunteer for Java Development Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-12-22 14:40 -0800
    Re: Volunteer for Java Development Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-12-22 21:59 -0800
      Re: Volunteer for Java Development Sarkar <virtexamit@gmail.com> - 2011-12-23 03:46 -0800
        Re: Volunteer for Java Development Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-12-23 09:15 -0800
          Re: Volunteer for Java Development "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2011-12-24 10:47 +1100
            Re: Volunteer for Java Development Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-12-24 12:33 -0400
            Re: Volunteer for Java Development Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-12-24 10:06 -0800
              Re: Volunteer for Java Development Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-12-27 03:29 +0000
                Re: Volunteer for Java Development Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-12-27 13:28 -0400
              Re: Volunteer for Java Development Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-12-27 18:13 -0500
                Re: Volunteer for Java Development Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-12-28 01:07 -0800
                Re: Volunteer for Java Development Sarkar <virtexamit@gmail.com> - 2012-01-01 22:37 -0800
            Re: Volunteer for Java Development Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-12-27 18:09 -0500
          Re: Volunteer for Java Development Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-12-23 20:54 -0800
            Re: Volunteer for Java Development Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> - 2011-12-24 00:18 -0800
            Re: Volunteer for Java Development Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-12-24 11:09 -0400
              Re: Volunteer for Java Development Sarkar <virtexamit@gmail.com> - 2011-12-24 07:26 -0800
              Re: Volunteer for Java Development Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-12-27 00:53 +0000
                Re: Volunteer for Java Development Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-12-26 22:23 -0400
                Re: Volunteer for Java Development Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-12-27 18:24 -0500
                Re: Volunteer for Java Development Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> - 2011-12-27 16:13 -0800
            Re: Volunteer for Java Development Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-12-24 10:10 -0800
              Re: Volunteer for Java Development Sarkar <virtexamit@gmail.com> - 2011-12-25 06:45 -0800
            Re: Volunteer for Java Development Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-12-27 18:16 -0500

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