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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #3564 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2011-06-26 15:13 -0500 |
| Last post | 2011-07-02 17:52 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 328 — 44 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.forth
The Lisp Curse Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-06-26 15:13 -0500
Re: The Lisp Curse Chris Hinsley <chris.hinsley@gmail.com> - 2011-06-27 16:13 +0100
Re: The Lisp Curse vandys@vsta.org - 2011-06-27 15:50 +0000
Re: The Lisp Curse Chris Hinsley <chris.hinsley@gmail.com> - 2011-06-27 16:55 +0100
Re: The Lisp Curse vandys@vsta.org - 2011-06-27 17:23 +0000
Re: The Lisp Curse Chris Hinsley <chris.hinsley@gmail.com> - 2011-06-27 20:09 +0100
Re: The Lisp Curse Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2011-06-29 18:59 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-06-30 12:49 +0100
Re: The Lisp Curse Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2011-07-02 16:38 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2011-07-03 11:27 +0000
Re: The Lisp Curse John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2011-07-03 17:40 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2011-07-04 18:38 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2011-06-30 12:25 -0700
Forth OO ( was: Re: The Lisp Curse ) Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2011-07-12 09:43 -0400
Re: Forth OO ( was: Re: The Lisp Curse ) Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2011-07-12 12:35 -0400
Re: Forth OO ( was: Re: The Lisp Curse ) John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2011-07-13 10:02 -0700
Re: Forth OO ( was: Re: The Lisp Curse ) Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2011-07-14 08:32 -0400
Re: Forth OO ( was: Re: The Lisp Curse ) Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-07-14 07:10 -0700
Re: Forth OO ( was: Re: The Lisp Curse ) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-07-14 09:31 -0500
Re: The Lisp Curse arc@vorsicht-bissig.de - 2011-07-12 22:20 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2011-07-13 10:01 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-06-28 03:02 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2011-06-27 21:29 -1000
Re: The Lisp Curse "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-06-28 06:55 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-06-28 06:17 -0500
Re: The Lisp Curse Chris Hinsley <chris.hinsley@gmail.com> - 2011-06-28 14:14 +0100
Re: The Lisp Curse Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2011-06-30 16:08 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-07-01 16:01 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2011-07-01 13:41 -1000
Re: The Lisp Curse Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2011-07-04 21:18 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-07-05 02:26 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2011-07-02 16:56 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2011-07-02 08:28 +0100
Re: The Lisp Curse Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2011-07-02 17:00 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2011-07-03 10:20 +0100
Re: The Lisp Curse Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2011-07-04 20:57 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2011-07-06 15:45 +0100
Re: The Lisp Curse Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2011-07-06 16:19 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Josh Grams <josh@qualdan.com> - 2011-07-07 01:23 +0000
Re: The Lisp Curse "David N. Williams" <williams@umich.edu> - 2011-07-06 21:44 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2011-07-06 19:01 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Josh Grams <josh@qualdan.com> - 2011-07-07 10:39 +0000
Re: The Lisp Curse John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2011-07-07 13:07 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse "David N. Williams" <williams@umich.edu> - 2011-07-06 21:42 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2011-07-07 10:32 +0100
Re: The Lisp Curse marko <marko@marko.marko.marko> - 2011-07-07 22:09 +1000
Re: The Lisp Curse Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-07-07 09:19 -0500
Re: The Lisp Curse Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2011-07-07 14:08 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2011-07-08 10:33 +0100
Re: The Lisp Curse Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-07-08 05:31 -0500
Re: The Lisp Curse Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2011-07-08 17:47 +0100
Re: The Lisp Curse vandys@vsta.org - 2011-07-08 17:23 +0000
Re: The Lisp Curse Spam@ControlQ.com - 2011-07-08 15:34 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2011-07-08 21:04 +0100
Re: The Lisp Curse John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2011-07-08 10:34 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2011-07-08 21:28 +0100
Re: The Lisp Curse John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2011-07-09 15:25 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2011-07-10 10:14 +0100
Re: The Lisp Curse John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2011-07-10 22:02 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-07-11 03:18 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2011-07-11 12:42 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2011-07-12 19:42 +0000
Re: The Lisp Curse Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-07-12 14:42 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-07-11 07:01 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-07-11 07:24 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2011-07-11 20:40 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2011-07-11 21:24 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2011-07-12 18:54 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2011-07-12 20:45 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2011-07-13 00:28 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2011-07-13 10:25 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2011-07-11 19:55 +0100
Re: The Lisp Curse Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-07-11 13:41 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Mark Wills <forthfreak@forthfiles.net> - 2011-07-11 13:45 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Jan Coombs <jan_2011-02@murray-microft.co.uk> - 2011-07-12 21:51 +0100
Re: The Lisp Curse Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2011-07-09 16:49 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-07-11 04:27 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2011-07-07 14:53 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2011-07-28 11:57 +0100
Re: The Lisp Curse Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2011-07-29 21:54 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Julian Fondren <ayrnieu@gmail.com> - 2011-07-30 18:22 -0500
Re: The Lisp Curse anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-08-01 12:59 +0000
Re: The Lisp Curse Julian Fondren <ayrnieu@gmail.com> - 2011-08-02 00:07 -0500
Re: The Lisp Curse Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2011-08-01 22:58 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2011-08-08 20:44 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2011-07-31 10:25 +0100
Re: The Lisp Curse Keith H Duggar <duggar@alum.mit.edu> - 2011-08-08 16:00 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2011-08-10 07:08 -1000
Re: The Lisp Curse Keith H Duggar <duggar@alum.mit.edu> - 2011-08-10 18:01 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-08-11 03:05 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Keith H Duggar <duggar@alum.mit.edu> - 2011-08-11 07:37 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-08-11 10:07 -0500
Re: The Lisp Curse Keith H Duggar <duggar@alum.mit.edu> - 2011-08-11 08:32 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-08-11 08:37 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Keith H Duggar <duggar@alum.mit.edu> - 2011-08-11 18:25 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-08-12 01:37 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Keith H Duggar <duggar@alum.mit.edu> - 2011-08-12 07:15 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-08-12 08:02 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-08-11 08:13 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Keith H Duggar <duggar@alum.mit.edu> - 2011-08-11 18:50 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-08-12 01:39 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse arc <arc@vorsicht-bissig.de> - 2011-08-11 10:06 +0000
Re: The Lisp Curse Keith H Duggar <duggar@alum.mit.edu> - 2011-08-11 08:02 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse arc <arc@vorsicht-bissig.de> - 2011-08-12 11:49 +0000
Re: The Lisp Curse arc <arc@vorsicht-bissig.de> - 2011-08-12 13:18 +0000
Re: The Lisp Curse Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2011-08-12 18:49 +0200
Re: The Lisp Curse John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 12:52 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-08-14 09:54 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2011-08-14 12:53 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-14 13:21 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2011-08-14 15:09 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-08-15 04:52 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-08-15 03:46 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse Josh Grams <josh@qualdan.com> - 2011-08-15 12:15 +0000
Re: The Lisp Curse Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2011-08-15 20:51 +0200
Re: The Lisp Curse Josh Grams <josh@qualdan.com> - 2011-08-15 21:56 +0000
Re: The Lisp Curse "Jeff M." <massung@gmail.com> - 2011-08-15 19:50 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-16 03:07 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2011-08-18 23:45 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse arc <arc@vorsicht-bissig.de> - 2011-08-18 11:38 +0000
Re: The Lisp Curse "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2011-08-18 07:57 -1000
Re: The Lisp Curse John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2011-08-15 06:01 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-08-16 05:10 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-16 03:13 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2011-08-18 23:31 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-08-19 06:09 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2011-08-20 17:14 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse "Jeff M." <massung@gmail.com> - 2011-08-20 20:38 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse "Jeff M." <massung@gmail.com> - 2011-08-20 20:49 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2011-08-20 23:39 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse "Jeff M." <massung@gmail.com> - 2011-08-21 00:29 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2011-08-21 00:57 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2011-08-21 01:04 -0700
Hamming numbers (was: The Lisp Curse) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-08-22 16:12 +0000
Re: The Lisp Curse Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201108.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2011-08-21 13:21 +0200
Re: The Lisp Curse Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2011-08-21 10:40 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-08-21 13:56 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2011-08-21 12:33 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2011-08-21 12:42 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2011-08-21 13:30 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-08-22 12:49 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2011-08-23 10:20 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-08-23 20:15 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2011-08-24 00:13 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-08-21 13:41 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-08-22 11:48 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-08-22 10:36 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-08-22 22:57 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2011-08-22 23:28 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-08-23 04:16 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-08-23 08:29 -0500
Re: The Lisp Curse Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-08-23 14:59 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-08-23 20:12 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-08-23 20:09 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse vandys@vsta.org - 2011-08-22 16:54 +0000
Re: The Lisp Curse Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2011-08-23 10:48 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-08-23 11:41 -0500
Re: The Lisp Curse vandys@vsta.org - 2011-08-23 17:11 +0000
Re: The Lisp Curse Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-08-23 12:27 -0500
Re: The Lisp Curse Brad <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2011-08-23 10:07 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Pablo Hugo Reda <pabloreda@gmail.com> - 2011-08-23 13:02 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse vandys@vsta.org - 2011-08-23 20:30 +0000
Re: The Lisp Curse "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-08-21 13:49 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse George Hubert <georgeahubert@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-22 01:49 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse vandys@vsta.org - 2011-08-22 17:02 +0000
Re: The Lisp Curse "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2011-08-22 07:50 -1000
Re: The Lisp Curse Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2011-08-23 01:03 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2011-08-22 22:38 -1000
Hamming numbers (was: The Lisp Curse) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-08-22 15:10 +0000
Re: Hamming numbers Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2011-08-23 00:09 -0700
Re: Hamming numbers anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-08-23 13:09 +0000
Re: Hamming numbers Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2011-08-23 10:41 -0700
Re: Hamming numbers anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-08-23 17:58 +0000
Re: Hamming numbers Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2011-08-24 00:25 -0700
Re: Hamming numbers Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201108.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2011-08-24 07:17 +0200
Re: The Lisp Curse vandys@vsta.org - 2011-08-19 17:41 +0000
Re: The Lisp Curse anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-08-19 18:05 +0000
Re: The Lisp Curse Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-08-19 13:53 -0500
Re: The Lisp Curse Pablo Hugo Reda <pabloreda@gmail.com> - 2011-08-19 13:15 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2011-08-19 15:39 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-08-19 19:49 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2011-08-19 17:41 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-08-20 03:54 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse Josh Grams <josh@qualdan.com> - 2011-08-20 15:20 +0000
Re: The Lisp Curse Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2011-08-21 14:41 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-08-22 11:47 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse coos haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2011-08-22 20:30 +0200
Re: The Lisp Curse Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2011-08-22 15:22 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-08-22 23:34 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2011-08-22 22:48 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-08-23 20:07 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2011-08-23 15:44 -1000
Re: The Lisp Curse Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2011-08-23 21:43 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2011-08-20 08:55 +0000
Re: The Lisp Curse Keith H Duggar <duggar@alum.mit.edu> - 2011-08-12 10:49 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-08-13 14:03 +0000
Re: The Lisp Curse Keith H Duggar <duggar@alum.mit.edu> - 2011-08-14 07:57 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2011-08-12 09:51 -1000
Re: The Lisp Curse anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-08-13 13:45 +0000
Re: The Lisp Curse "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2011-08-13 08:08 -1000
Re: The Lisp Curse Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2011-08-14 02:56 +0200
Re: The Lisp Curse Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-08-13 04:35 -0500
Re: The Lisp Curse Keith H Duggar <duggar@alum.mit.edu> - 2011-08-12 07:53 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-08-13 14:13 +0000
Re: The Lisp Curse Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2011-08-13 13:59 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-08-14 14:46 +0000
Re: The Lisp Curse Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2011-08-17 01:31 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-06-28 03:24 -0500
Re: The Lisp Curse Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201106.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2011-06-28 19:55 +0200
Re: The Lisp Curse "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-06-29 06:30 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse Chris Hinsley <chris.hinsley@gmail.com> - 2011-06-29 13:49 +0100
Re: The Lisp Curse Chris Hinsley <chris.hinsley@gmail.com> - 2011-06-29 14:02 +0100
Re: The Lisp Curse "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-06-29 18:16 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2011-06-29 15:45 +0200
Re: The Lisp Curse "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-06-29 19:45 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse Elko T <nono.black.elko@gmail.com> - 2011-06-29 22:08 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-06-30 10:07 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse coos haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2011-06-30 20:44 +0200
Re: The Lisp Curse "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-06-30 18:08 -0400
Counted vs. terminated strings (Re: The Lisp Curse) Elko T <nono.black.elko@gmail.com> - 2011-06-30 20:07 -0400
Re: Counted vs. terminated strings (Re: The Lisp Curse) Elko T <nono.black.elko@gmail.com> - 2011-06-30 22:12 -0400
Re: Counted vs. terminated strings (Re: The Lisp Curse) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-07-01 16:01 -0400
Re: Counted vs. terminated strings (Re: The Lisp Curse) Elko T <nono.black.elko@gmail.com> - 2011-07-01 17:59 -0400
Re: Counted vs. terminated strings (Re: The Lisp Curse) The Beez <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2011-07-01 16:33 -0700
Re: Counted vs. terminated strings (Re: The Lisp Curse) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-07-02 18:37 -0400
Re: Counted vs. terminated strings (Re: The Lisp Curse) kenney@cix.compulink.co.uk - 2011-07-01 06:07 -0500
Re: Counted vs. terminated strings (Re: The Lisp Curse) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-07-01 16:00 -0400
Re: Counted vs. terminated strings (Re: The Lisp Curse) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-07-01 14:06 +0000
Re: Counted vs. terminated strings (Re: The Lisp Curse) Elko T <nono.black.elko@gmail.com> - 2011-07-01 14:57 -0400
Re: Counted vs. terminated strings (Re: The Lisp Curse) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-07-02 16:55 +0000
Re: Counted vs. terminated strings (Re: The Lisp Curse) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-07-01 16:04 -0400
Re: Counted vs. terminated strings (Re: The Lisp Curse) Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-07-02 11:26 -0700
Re: Counted vs. terminated strings (Re: The Lisp Curse) coos haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2011-07-02 22:10 +0200
Re: Counted vs. terminated strings (Re: The Lisp Curse) Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-07-02 14:36 -0700
Re: Counted vs. terminated strings (Re: The Lisp Curse) Elko T <nono.black.elko@gmail.com> - 2011-07-02 21:36 -0400
Re: Counted vs. terminated strings (Re: The Lisp Curse) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-07-02 18:25 -0400
Re: Counted vs. terminated strings (Re: The Lisp Curse) Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-07-03 10:53 -0700
Re: Counted vs. terminated strings (Re: The Lisp Curse) Elko T <nono.black.elko@gmail.com> - 2011-07-04 23:41 -0400
Re: Counted vs. terminated strings (Re: The Lisp Curse) Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-07-05 01:02 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2011-07-02 22:46 +0200
Re: The Lisp Curse David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2011-07-18 01:25 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse Chris Hinsley <chris.hinsley@gmail.com> - 2011-06-30 14:44 +0100
Re: The Lisp Curse Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-06-30 23:24 +0100
Re: The Lisp Curse Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201107.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2011-07-03 12:04 +0200
Re: The Lisp Curse "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-07-03 20:24 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-07-04 02:21 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201107.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2011-07-04 16:02 +0200
Re: The Lisp Curse Tarkin <tarkin000@gmail.com> - 2011-07-04 10:21 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-07-04 11:13 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Tarkin <tarkin000@gmail.com> - 2011-07-04 12:31 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-07-04 15:01 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2011-07-04 13:23 -1000
Re: The Lisp Curse Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-07-05 01:45 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-07-05 11:34 +0000
Re: The Lisp Curse Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-07-05 05:34 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-07-05 14:28 +0000
Re: The Lisp Curse Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-07-05 09:39 -0700
OT: full virtualization (was: The Lisp Curse) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-07-07 15:36 +0000
Re: OT: full virtualization Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-07-07 13:17 -0500
Re: OT: full virtualization Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-07-08 04:53 -0700
Re: OT: full virtualization anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-07-08 17:11 +0000
Re: OT: full virtualization Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-07-08 12:41 -0700
Re: OT: full virtualization (was: The Lisp Curse) Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-07-08 04:34 -0700
Re: OT: full virtualization (was: The Lisp Curse) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-07-10 16:03 +0000
Re: OT: full virtualization (was: The Lisp Curse) Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-07-10 13:06 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2011-07-07 00:11 +0200
Re: The Lisp Curse Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2011-07-06 12:47 -1000
Re: The Lisp Curse anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-07-07 10:07 +0000
Re: The Lisp Curse Tarkin <tarkin000@gmail.com> - 2011-07-07 13:00 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-07-04 12:40 -0500
Re: The Lisp Curse Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-07-04 11:15 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-07-04 15:53 -0500
Re: The Lisp Curse Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2011-07-05 10:16 +0200
Re: The Lisp Curse Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-07-05 02:23 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-07-05 09:54 -0500
Re: The Lisp Curse Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2011-07-05 22:33 +0200
Re: The Lisp Curse Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-07-05 16:28 -0500
Re: The Lisp Curse Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-07-05 16:18 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-07-04 15:03 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2011-07-05 00:20 +0200
Re: The Lisp Curse "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-07-05 11:35 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2011-07-05 09:46 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201107.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2011-07-05 23:13 +0200
Re: The Lisp Curse John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2011-07-05 15:31 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse kenney@cix.compulink.co.uk - 2011-07-07 04:38 -0500
Re: The Lisp Curse Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-07-05 19:21 -0500
Re: The Lisp Curse Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2011-07-05 14:57 -1000
Re: The Lisp Curse John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2011-07-05 20:48 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2011-07-06 07:38 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-07-06 09:46 -0500
Re: The Lisp Curse kenney@cix.compulink.co.uk - 2011-07-07 04:38 -0500
Re: The Lisp Curse Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-07-07 10:41 -0500
Re: The Lisp Curse BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2011-07-07 09:12 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-07-06 09:53 -0500
Re: The Lisp Curse Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2011-07-06 21:45 +0200
Re: The Lisp Curse "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-07-07 14:48 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse Chris Hinsley <chris.hinsley@gmail.com> - 2011-07-07 20:20 +0100
Re: The Lisp Curse coos haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2011-07-08 04:39 +0200
Re: The Lisp Curse Chris Hinsley <chris.hinsley@gmail.com> - 2011-07-12 23:22 +0100
Re: The Lisp Curse "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-07-12 19:35 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse Chris Hinsley <chris.hinsley@gmail.com> - 2011-07-13 23:37 +0100
Re: The Lisp Curse Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201107.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2011-07-12 05:10 +0200
Re: The Lisp Curse Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-07-12 03:44 -0500
Re: The Lisp Curse Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201107.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2011-07-13 22:06 +0200
Re: The Lisp Curse Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-07-14 04:01 -0500
Re: The Lisp Curse kenney@cix.compulink.co.uk - 2011-07-07 04:38 -0500
Re: The Lisp Curse Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-07-03 07:34 -0500
Re: The Lisp Curse Spam@ControlQ.com - 2011-06-29 13:25 -0400
Forth as implementation language vandys@vsta.org - 2011-06-29 18:27 +0000
Re: Forth as implementation language Spam@ControlQ.com - 2011-06-29 17:50 -0400
Re: Forth as implementation language vandys@vsta.org - 2011-06-29 22:45 +0000
Re: Forth as implementation language Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-06-30 13:04 +0100
Re: Forth as implementation language Spam@ControlQ.com - 2011-06-30 11:42 -0400
Re: Forth as implementation language "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-06-30 13:12 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2011-06-29 08:38 -1000
Re: The Lisp Curse Spam@ControlQ.com - 2011-06-29 18:01 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2011-06-29 12:50 -1000
Re: The Lisp Curse stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2011-06-30 08:15 +0000
Re: The Lisp Curse Spam@ControlQ.com - 2011-07-03 15:22 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-06-30 13:09 +0100
Re: The Lisp Curse "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2011-06-29 18:31 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2011-06-29 23:01 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-07-01 09:42 -0500
Re: The Lisp Curse Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2011-07-01 18:49 +0000
Re: The Lisp Curse Mentifex <mentifex@myuw.net> - 2011-06-29 15:41 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse "Fuschia, President-Elect of the Bright Purplish-Green Council" <fp-eotbp-gc@ibm.com> - 2011-06-29 19:16 -0400
Re: The Lisp Curse Mark Wills <forthfreak@forthfiles.net> - 2011-06-30 00:34 -0700
Re: The Lisp Curse anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-07-02 17:52 +0000
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| From | John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-11 12:42 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <41c00083-8787-48a1-8fb0-cd7da0e020c6@y24g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #3954 |
On Jul 11, 6:18 am, Alex McDonald <b...@rivadpm.com> wrote: > This has come up before as a discussion point (as I'm sure > you will remember) over the phrase "carnal knowledge". There > are many phrases that will offend someone somewhere. I've > stopped paying attention, since what I consider offensive > is not what others consider offensive, and vice versa. One > of my favourite IT online newspapers, The Register > (affectionately known as El Reg), uses the phrase "titsup" > regularly, as in this recent headline; "$8.5bn Skype goes > titsup again - including website". An American publication > might use the word "offline" or "down". Is titsup offensive? > I don't think so, but my transatlantic colleagues find it > disturbing. The Register (and a bunch of other online publications, like those in the Gawker family) seem to be going for a snarky vibe, which is part of their charm, personality, and appeal. For The Register, it's certainly a lot more fun that some of the boring press-release mills out there. It's also a style that /feels/ more unguarded, raw, and honest, like the authors (or at least editors) exist at the collision of traditional reporting and opinionated blogging. As an American reader of The Register, I've noticed their fondness for "titsup" and thought it was just a British colloquialism. I never found it disturbing, but then again, I've been in touch with my inner Beavis and Butthead for years now. Maybe that's part of the problem; too many people haven't reconciled that one can simultaneously be serious, professional, technical, analytic *and* still channel 13-year inside them who still thinks fart jokes are funny. Back to the more immediate discussion, I find many of discussions over use of language in comp.lang.forth as ironic. As a class, you would expect that Forth developers would be a bit more sophisticated with language than others. We understand that words are separate from their definitions and that words can change meaning depending on context. Forth programmers amuse themselves with things like: : 1 2 ; : + - ; 36 base ! gamma lust - . And yet, when some see a word like "sucks" or a phrase like "carnal knowledge" in a context that can't possibly be referring to a sex act, some part of the language center of their brain shuts down and the more salacious out-of-context meaning that is bouncing around their heads takes hold. Either that, or maybe they *want* to be offended.
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| From | Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-12 19:42 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <lo8k2b.5i7@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> |
| In reply to | #3998 |
In article <41c00083-8787-48a1-8fb0-cd7da0e020c6@y24g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> wrote: <SNIP> > >The Register (and a bunch of other online publications, like those in >the Gawker family) seem to be going for a snarky vibe, which is part >of their charm, personality, and appeal. For The Register, it's >certainly a lot more fun that some of the boring press-release mills >out there. It's also a style that /feels/ more unguarded, raw, and >honest, like the authors (or at least editors) exist at the collision >of traditional reporting and opinionated blogging. My impression was that they publish copyrighted material changing all words to not quite logical equivalents. This way the copyright violation goes unnoticed, and a complaints can be challenged. Groetjes Albert -- -- Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters. albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst
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| From | Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-12 14:42 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <fbf2f192-b2f8-4418-ac1a-5564b6a8ced6@e18g2000vbx.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #4052 |
On Jul 12, 8:42 pm, Albert van der Horst <alb...@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> wrote: > In article <41c00083-8787-48a1-8fb0-cd7da0e02...@y24g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, > John Passaniti <john.passan...@gmail.com> wrote: > <SNIP> > > > > >The Register (and a bunch of other online publications, like those in > >the Gawker family) seem to be going for a snarky vibe, which is part > >of their charm, personality, and appeal. For The Register, it's > >certainly a lot more fun that some of the boring press-release mills > >out there. It's also a style that /feels/ more unguarded, raw, and > >honest, like the authors (or at least editors) exist at the collision > >of traditional reporting and opinionated blogging. > > My impression was that they publish copyrighted material changing > all words to not quite logical equivalents. > This way the copyright violation goes unnoticed, and a complaints > can be challenged. > > Groetjes Albert > > -- > -- > Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS > Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters. > albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=nhttp://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst I have written for ElReg and know one of the journalists well. I would deny that's the case with the exception of those pieces that are clearly based on press releases.
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| From | Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-11 07:01 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <6c8e4ada-477b-46a4-98e5-f321830b1f12@t9g2000vbv.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #3952 |
On Jul 11, 6:02 am, John Passaniti <john.passan...@gmail.com> wrote: > Fascinating. So I guess the professional colleagues I've had over the > years from England who have used "sucks" to express displeasure with > something, both in spoken and written conversation, were infected by > American idioms? Yep. We learned "sucks" from American TV. Simple as that. It's still not widely used in the UK. We'd be much much more likely to say "shit" than "sucks". Fact. It's just how it is. It was never ever ever used in common vernacular whilst I was at school, for example (1975-1986). > It's kind of funny that when meeting these fine > people, we've had plenty of mutual amusement at each other's use of > language (for example, when a British engineer offered to "knock up" > me in the morning on our way to a conference). But "sucks" never > needed explanation or translation. Seems the dividing lines between > American, Canadian, British, and Australian English is fairly fluid, > because I can find "sucks" in every on-line slang dictionary for every > major English-speaking country. Some of these references go the extra > mile (or is it kilometer for you?) It's miile. But it's a different mile to the American mile. > > Possibly more interesting is how some people interpret "sucks" as > offensive or vulgar. Now of course, this doesn't apply to Hugh, since > his outrage was artificial; it was an attempt to latch on to > *anything* he could as a smoke-screen against the technical failings > of symtab's design. But for others, I wonder what aspect of their > socialization leads to the assumption of a prurient interpretation of > "sucks" when in context there was nothing that would imply that, and > when "sucks" is understood to be a common idiom that means some shade > of "not good"? What causes their minds to rush there, when that > doesn't make any sense? > Your use of the word "sucks" with reference to Hugh's Symtab program was neither vulgur, nor offensive. It was of course calculated to cause hurt towards Hugh, which in itself, from Hugh's perspective, causes offense.
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| From | Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-11 07:24 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <4e91af45-5883-4afa-af94-ba51fb55acc6@y30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #3961 |
On Jul 11, 3:01 pm, Mark Wills <markrobertwi...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > On Jul 11, 6:02 am, John Passaniti <john.passan...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Fascinating. So I guess the professional colleagues I've had over the > > years from England who have used "sucks" to express displeasure with > > something, both in spoken and written conversation, were infected by > > American idioms? > > Yep. We learned "sucks" from American TV. Simple as that. It's still > not widely used in the UK. We'd be much much more likely to say "shit" > than "sucks". Fact. It's just how it is. It was never ever ever used > in common vernacular whilst I was at school, for example (1975-1986). > > > It's kind of funny that when meeting these fine > > people, we've had plenty of mutual amusement at each other's use of > > language (for example, when a British engineer offered to "knock up" > > me in the morning on our way to a conference). But "sucks" never > > needed explanation or translation. Seems the dividing lines between > > American, Canadian, British, and Australian English is fairly fluid, > > because I can find "sucks" in every on-line slang dictionary for every > > major English-speaking country. Some of these references go the extra > > mile (or is it kilometer for you?) > > It's miile. But it's a different mile to the American mile. ???? US <> UK Gallon, yes. But mile? > > > > > Possibly more interesting is how some people interpret "sucks" as > > offensive or vulgar. Now of course, this doesn't apply to Hugh, since > > his outrage was artificial; it was an attempt to latch on to > > *anything* he could as a smoke-screen against the technical failings > > of symtab's design. But for others, I wonder what aspect of their > > socialization leads to the assumption of a prurient interpretation of > > "sucks" when in context there was nothing that would imply that, and > > when "sucks" is understood to be a common idiom that means some shade > > of "not good"? What causes their minds to rush there, when that > > doesn't make any sense? > > Your use of the word "sucks" with reference to Hugh's Symtab program > was neither vulgur, nor offensive. It was of course calculated to > cause hurt towards Hugh, which in itself, from Hugh's perspective, > causes offense.
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| From | Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-11 20:40 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <1b765ba6-fc1a-4302-9dc5-86773b7da861@j9g2000prj.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #3961 |
On Jul 11, 8:01 am, Mark Wills <markrobertwi...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > On Jul 11, 6:02 am, John Passaniti <john.passan...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Possibly more interesting is how some people interpret "sucks" as > > offensive or vulgar. Now of course, this doesn't apply to Hugh, since > > his outrage was artificial; it was an attempt to latch on to > > *anything* he could as a smoke-screen against the technical failings > > of symtab's design. But for others, I wonder what aspect of their > > socialization leads to the assumption of a prurient interpretation of > > "sucks" when in context there was nothing that would imply that, and > > when "sucks" is understood to be a common idiom that means some shade > > of "not good"? What causes their minds to rush there, when that > > doesn't make any sense? > > Your use of the word "sucks" with reference to Hugh's Symtab program > was neither vulgur, nor offensive. It was of course calculated to > cause hurt towards Hugh, which in itself, from Hugh's perspective, > causes offense. My issue is not with John Passaniti --- it is with Elizabeth Rather. Passaniti can't cause hurt to me, because he is not my equal --- he doesn't even write Forth code (afaik, Perl is the only language that he programs in) --- he is not going to convince me that I can't program in Forth. Passaniti can't help being what he is; as Lady Gaga would explain, he was born that way. Elizabeth Rather is supporting Passaniti as a purposeful strategy intended to further Forth Inc.'s growth (or at least, survival) --- she could help being what she is, by adopting a different strategy --- but she won't. Elizabeth Rather is using Passaniti to further her own agenda, which is the destruction of the Forth community. It is unlikely that she even knows what symtab is, or cares --- she just requires that all Forth written outside of Forth Inc. should suck --- this is why she so enthusiastically supported Passaniti in saying that symtab sucks. It wouldn't have mattered if I had implemented a well-known hash table algorithm rather than a tree of my own invention; it would have still sucked. When I implemented an LLRB tree, which is not my own invention but is a well-known algorithm, that sucked too (according to Passaniti, and presumably backed up by Rather). Everything in the novice package has sucked --- and any new version that I may write in the future, will also suck. In Elizabeth Rather's world, all Forth programmers must suck. Forthers such as Bernd Payson and Anton Ertl have willingly accepted their role (admitting that they suck) by focusing their efforts on Gforth, which is so slow that it makes SwiftForth seem fast by comparison (and SwiftForth is slow as molasses). So long as they focus on this toy interpreter, they support Elizabeth Rather's false dichotomy in which Forthers can either pay hundreds of dollars for the "professional" SwiftForth, or use the toy Gforth for free. If Payson and Ertl were to begin focusing on a real compiler that generated optimized machine- code, they would become a threat to Forth Inc. and Elizabeth Rather would begin attacking them too. They are just playing it safe, avoiding Elizabeth Rather's ire, through purposeful incompetence. They know enough about Forth that they could write a real compiler if they wanted to, but they are afraid of offending Elizabeth Rather, so they maintain a low profile and restrict themselves to a toy interpreter. They are also willing to give Leon Wagner veto power in Forth-200x, which effectively makes Forth-200x cripple-ware. I think that Payson and Ertl are afraid that if Forth Inc. goes bankrupt, this will effectively kill Forth altogether. Most non- Forthers believe that Forth Inc. *is* Forth (because of the name), and that the bankruptcy of Forth Inc. implies the bankruptcy of Forth as a language. SwiftForth may be slow as molasses, but the Forthers ask: "What else is there?" Nobody wants to point out that SwiftForth is not a viable tool for professional programming --- it is like the story in which nobody would point out that the emperor had no clothes --- they just continue to pretend that SwiftForth is in the same league as C++ and Java, although it never was. The question that you have got to ask yourself is: does Forth Inc.'s continued existence help the Forth community, or drag it down? In other words, was Forth Inc. blameworthy for Forth's complete failure as a commercial programming language in the early 1990s?
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| From | Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-11 21:24 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <2609dd05-1532-4af0-8f62-24f7793beed9@x10g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #4016 |
On Jul 12, 6:40 am, Hugh Aguilar <hughaguila...@yahoo.com> wrote: > Passaniti can't cause hurt to me, because he is not my equal Well, you're certainly right on that point! <diatribe snipped> > Forthers can either pay hundreds of dollars for the "professional" > SwiftForth, or use the toy Gforth for free. Well, you seem to have missed Win32Forth (which is very good if you're writing Windows applications), or iForth or BigForth -- all of which are ANS, free (or low cost) and not "toy" Forths. You also missed VFX (excellent but not free), and I am sure that with even a small amount of effort you would find several other ANS "non-toy" Forths. And if you're willing to come out of your closet (oops! did I say something naughty?!?) a minute and stray from ANS, you might try Reva, which is free, fast and "non-toy". You might even use it as a base for your own HughForth -- because it's PD and you can do with it whatever you want (there are already several derivatives "in the wild"). On the other hand, you would have to learn some x86 assembler and write code instead of bitching and moaning, which hardly seems your style. Or -- perish the thought! -- you might just shut the fuck up and write your own Forth instead of polluting this newsgroup with your paranoid bullshit. Just an idea. Have I used enough inflammatory language yet? No? OK, here goes... > Most non-Forthers believe that Forth Inc. *is* Forth As usual with your verbal diarrhea, you are full of shit. Most "non- Forthers" haven't even heard of Forth, nor do they care about it (assuming "programmers who don't use Forth" is what you mean by "non- Forthers"). "Forth Inc" is a company selling a product, and you -- Hugh the Dim -- have probably given them the most free advertising they've ever had in their quite long corporate history. Congratulations on discovering what "unintended effect" means! I apologize to the general list for my crude, foul and entirely too accurate language. Anyone offended by same can take it up with my Political Correctness department. Except for Hugh, who can take it with him on his long walk off a short pier.
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| From | Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-12 18:54 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <fc244f23-059e-486e-9bb6-322f5bbc47e6@k23g2000pri.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #4020 |
On Jul 11, 10:24 pm, Ron Aaron <rambam...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Jul 12, 6:40 am, Hugh Aguilar <hughaguila...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Passaniti can't cause hurt to me, because he is not my equal > > Well, you're certainly right on that point! Do you use "Ron" as a sock puppet? I notice that you are both from Israel, you both consider Passaniti to be your equal, and you both use vulgar language --- I think that you are one and the same! > And if you're willing to come out of your closet (oops! did I say > something naughty?!?) a minute and stray from ANS, you might try Reva, > which is free, fast and "non-toy". You might even use it as a base > for your own HughForth -- because it's PD and you can do with it > whatever you want (there are already several derivatives "in the > wild"). On the other hand, you would have to learn some x86 assembler > and write code instead of bitching and moaning, which hardly seems > your style. Get real; of course I know x86 assembly language. Do you really think that I'm such a novice that I don't? As for Reva, afaik it is another toy Forth system; it is a threaded system. You said on your website that it is based on CMForth, and CMForth is just an old FIG-Forth that has been ported from one processor to another over the years and now even runs on the 32-bit x86 (which didn't even exist when FIG was distributing those green- cover booklets containing FIG-Forth source-code in various assembly languages). If Reva is a threaded system (I am assuming that it is, although your website didn't really say), then it is too slow to be used for application writing, so I wouldn't have any use for it except as something to look at for ideas. > > Most non-Forthers believe that Forth Inc. *is* Forth > > As usual with your verbal diarrhea, you are full of shit. Most "non- > Forthers" haven't even heard of Forth, nor do they care about it > (assuming "programmers who don't use Forth" is what you mean by "non- > Forthers"). Most programmers under the age of 40 have never heard of Forth; they go through college and it is never mentioned. When I tell them that I am a Forth programmer, they typically say: "Fortran?" --- they have never even heard the word "Forth" and they assume that I am mispronouncing "Fortran." Most programmers over the age of 40 have heard of Forth. Many of them tried PolyForth back in the 1980s (or even the early 1990s, although Forth was pretty much dead by that time) --- and this is why they hate Forth. In the early 1990s when I was working as a C/C++ programmer I knew many people in this category --- every time that I mentioned Forth, they got angry and said that they had already tried PolyForth and they would never touch Forth again --- or they would suggest that since I know so much about Forth, I should be the luckless flunkie who gets the job of porting some old "Forth-crap" into C for the company (I obviously didn't want this dead-end assignment, so I stopped mentioning Forth at work and just focused on C programming). > "Forth Inc" is a company selling a product, and you -- > Hugh the Dim -- have probably given them the most free advertising > they've ever had in their quite long corporate history. > Congratulations on discovering what "unintended effect" means! It is possible that somebody will want to buy SwiftForth because Elizabeth Rather is a champion of the homosexual community, and they want to support her in this. I doubt that it happens very often, as those people don't have any money --- I doubt that even John Passaniti has purchased SwiftForth, as his husband doesn't provide him with enough of an allowance to make $500 purchases (and he has no use for it anyway, as he never writes any Forth code and isn't planning on starting). Forth Inc.'s advertising is built entirely upon the fact that they own the word "Forth" and that Elizabeth Rather was with Chuck Moore way back in the 1970s when he was inventing Forth, all of which supposedly makes her the "leading expert" on Forth.
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| From | Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-12 20:45 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <cb02b120-d2ed-4341-9ae9-609f3e3fe057@n35g2000yqf.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #4072 |
On Jul 13, 4:54 am, Hugh Aguilar <hughaguila...@yahoo.com> wrote: > Do you use "Ron" as a sock puppet? I notice that you are both from Israel... Oh no, my Mossad cover's been blown! Yes, Hugh; "Ron" and "Ron Aaron" are one and the same. I would have thought everyone knew that, since I have never tried to "conceal" my identity... they're just two different email addresses. > As for Reva, afaik it is another toy Forth system; it is a threaded > system. No, it is not a threaded system. > You said on your website that it is based on CMForth, and No, I don't even mention "CMForth" on my site AFAIK. I'm not even familiar with CMForth. From my actual site (as opposed to your imaginary version of my site): "Reva is based on RetroForth, with many ideas fom HelFORTH" (http://dev.ronware.org/p/reva/wiki?name=Manual) > If Reva is a threaded system (I am assuming that it is, although your > website didn't really say), then it is too slow to be used for > application writing, so I wouldn't have any use for it except as > something to look at for ideas. Well, since you clearly have not looked at it at all, you don't know what you're talking about, right? As I said above, Reva is not threaded. It is native-code, subroutine compiled. In terms of speed, it is generally about as fast as non-optimized C code (sometimes faster, sometimes slower depending on what you're doing). It is most definitely "fast enough" for applications, since there are several (release to clients) applications written in it and running every day. And I wonder how you get your metrics for declarations of "too slow". Anything faster than the user can react is "fast enough" -- and it's been a long (!) time since computers were fast enough that even "slow code" was "fast enough". > Most programmers under the age of 40 have never heard of Forth; they > go through college and it is never mentioned. Exactly my point. And most programmers are under the age of 40! > Most programmers over the age of 40 have heard of Forth. Not in my experience. In the "commercial applications" and "business applications" worlds, few have heard of Forth. Of course if you're in the "embedded" world then many (most?) have.
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| From | Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-13 00:28 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <5ebbf480-8b58-4f2e-aae3-db02591a41a5@m6g2000prh.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #4074 |
On Jul 12, 9:45 pm, Ron Aaron <rambam...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Jul 13, 4:54 am, Hugh Aguilar <hughaguila...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > As for Reva, afaik it is another toy Forth system; it is a threaded > > system. > > No, it is not a threaded system. > > > You said on your website that it is based on CMForth, and > > No, I don't even mention "CMForth" on my site AFAIK. I'm not even > familiar with CMForth. > > From my actual site (as opposed to your imaginary version of my site): It was the Wikipedia article where I saw the CMForth reference, not your website.
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| From | John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-13 10:25 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <c1239c54-b259-45e1-9e92-f892f24dfbca@q15g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #4072 |
On Jul 12, 9:54 pm, Hugh Aguilar <hughaguila...@yahoo.com> wrote: > It is possible that somebody will want to buy SwiftForth > because Elizabeth Rather is a champion of the homosexual > community, and they want to support her in this. Fascinating. > I doubt that it happens very often, as those people don't > have any money You might want to tell that to the marketers. > --- I doubt that even John Passaniti > has purchased SwiftForth, as his husband doesn't provide > him with enough of an allowance to make $500 purchases (and > he has no use for it anyway, as he never writes any Forth > code and isn't planning on starting). I continue to be fascinated by the amount of energy you put into imagining the life of my spouse and I. It doesn't have any bearing on reality, but the fact you're sitting there inventing a reality in your head about us raises all sorts of interesting questions. > > Forth Inc.'s advertising is built entirely upon the fact that they own > the word "Forth" and that Elizabeth Rather was with Chuck Moore way > back in the 1970s when he was inventing Forth, all of which supposedly > makes her the "leading expert" on Forth.
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| From | Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-11 19:55 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <ivfgve$jbf$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #3952 |
On 11/07/2011 06:02, John Passaniti wrote: > On Jul 10, 5:14 am, Gerry Jackson<ge...@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> > wrote: >> Yes I'm one of probably several million people in Britain who >> have never used "sucks" in that way. It's apparently American >> slang dating from about 1971 [...] and somewhere else I read >> that it didn't become common for several years after that. >> >> I think you're just demonstrating a form of american insularity there. > > Fascinating. So I guess the professional colleagues I've had over the > years from England who have used "sucks" to express displeasure with > something, both in spoken and written conversation, were infected by > American idioms? Certainly, see Mark Wills reply. They were probably using your language, when in Rome ... > It's kind of funny that when meeting these fine > people, we've had plenty of mutual amusement at each other's use of > language (for example, when a British engineer offered to "knock up" > me in the morning on our way to a conference). It's certainly funny at times, I believe the venerable English phrase "keep your pecker up" gets the US schoolboys sniggering. > But "sucks" never > needed explanation or translation. Seems the dividing lines between > American, Canadian, British, and Australian English is fairly fluid, > because I can find "sucks" in every on-line slang dictionary for every > major English-speaking country. Yes I expect all these slang dictionaries include slang from all English speaking countries and don't reflect national usage e.g. the word "bollocks", which is commonly used in Britain and considered mildly(?) offensive, is in US slang dictionaries but AFAIK isn't used much in the US. We're getting way off topic here but bollocks is an very versatile word, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bollocks. One usage even denotes excellence. > Some of these references go the extra > mile (or is it kilometer for you?) and attempt etymologies that > reference everything from a sex act to the reaction people have eating > lemons to how weasels suck the contents from eggs. The last company I worked for exhorted the staff to "go the extra mile" when they needed to improve profits, the management didn't think it funny when we said we were scientists & engineers so we can only go the extra km. > If comp.lang.forth was a scholarly journal or professional > association, I would not have used "sucks." Not because it's > necessarily inappropriate, but because in such contexts, it's far more > fun (and funny) to come up with droll constructions like "the memory > performance of symtab relative to hash tables proves to be sub-optimal > for real-world datasets, but has excellent performance otherwise." Or > maybe, "the author of symtab offers a non-traditional metric for the > algorithm's effectiveness based on sheer repetition of claims." Or > possibly, "by prioritizing for cumulative frequency over locality of > reference, symtab demonstrates optimal performance suited for an > exotic use-case that has yet to be discovered." > > Or, I suppose, one could just say it sucks. That's certainly more sucksinct than both the above and the British equivalent "a load of bollocks". -- Gerry
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| From | Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-11 13:41 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <c99dbc21-2005-4fae-bc7b-a72bc09daad8@e21g2000vbz.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #3993 |
On Jul 11, 7:55 pm, Gerry Jackson <ge...@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> wrote: > On 11/07/2011 06:02, John Passaniti wrote: > > > On Jul 10, 5:14 am, Gerry Jackson<ge...@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> > > wrote: > >> Yes I'm one of probably several million people in Britain who > >> have never used "sucks" in that way. It's apparently American > >> slang dating from about 1971 [...] and somewhere else I read > >> that it didn't become common for several years after that. > > >> I think you're just demonstrating a form of american insularity there. > > > Fascinating. So I guess the professional colleagues I've had over the > > years from England who have used "sucks" to express displeasure with > > something, both in spoken and written conversation, were infected by > > American idioms? > > Certainly, see Mark Wills reply. They were probably using your language, > when in Rome ... > > > It's kind of funny that when meeting these fine > > people, we've had plenty of mutual amusement at each other's use of > > language (for example, when a British engineer offered to "knock up" > > me in the morning on our way to a conference). > > It's certainly funny at times, I believe the venerable English phrase > "keep your pecker up" gets the US schoolboys sniggering. As does going for a drag on a fag. > > > But "sucks" never > > needed explanation or translation. Seems the dividing lines between > > American, Canadian, British, and Australian English is fairly fluid, > > because I can find "sucks" in every on-line slang dictionary for every > > major English-speaking country. > > Yes I expect all these slang dictionaries include slang from all English > speaking countries and don't reflect national usage e.g. the word > "bollocks", which is commonly used in Britain and considered mildly(?) > offensive, is in US slang dictionaries but AFAIK isn't used much in the > US. We're getting way off topic here but bollocks is an very versatile > word, seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bollocks. One usage even denotes > excellence. I shan't look, but I'll bet it's dogs. And I must admit to a fondness for "it's the dog's doughnuts". No, I don't know what it literally means, but it denotes excellence. > > > Some of these references go the extra > > mile (or is it kilometer for you?) and attempt etymologies that > > reference everything from a sex act to the reaction people have eating > > lemons to how weasels suck the contents from eggs. > > The last company I worked for exhorted the staff to "go the extra mile" > when they needed to improve profits, the management didn't think it > funny when we said we were scientists & engineers so we can only go the > extra km. > > > If comp.lang.forth was a scholarly journal or professional > > association, I would not have used "sucks." Not because it's > > necessarily inappropriate, but because in such contexts, it's far more > > fun (and funny) to come up with droll constructions like "the memory > > performance of symtab relative to hash tables proves to be sub-optimal > > for real-world datasets, but has excellent performance otherwise." Or > > maybe, "the author of symtab offers a non-traditional metric for the > > algorithm's effectiveness based on sheer repetition of claims." Or > > possibly, "by prioritizing for cumulative frequency over locality of > > reference, symtab demonstrates optimal performance suited for an > > exotic use-case that has yet to be discovered." > > > Or, I suppose, one could just say it sucks. > > That's certainly more sucksinct than both the above and the British > equivalent "a load of bollocks". > > -- > Gerry
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| From | Mark Wills <forthfreak@forthfiles.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-11 13:45 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <04d54dcb-8f60-49a4-914e-8db81f870e05@l18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #4004 |
On Jul 11, 9:41 pm, Alex McDonald <b...@rivadpm.com> wrote: > On Jul 11, 7:55 pm, Gerry Jackson <ge...@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On 11/07/2011 06:02, John Passaniti wrote: > > > > On Jul 10, 5:14 am, Gerry Jackson<ge...@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> > > > wrote: > > >> Yes I'm one of probably several million people in Britain who > > >> have never used "sucks" in that way. It's apparently American > > >> slang dating from about 1971 [...] and somewhere else I read > > >> that it didn't become common for several years after that. > > > >> I think you're just demonstrating a form of american insularity there. > > > > Fascinating. So I guess the professional colleagues I've had over the > > > years from England who have used "sucks" to express displeasure with > > > something, both in spoken and written conversation, were infected by > > > American idioms? > > > Certainly, see Mark Wills reply. They were probably using your language, > > when in Rome ... > > > > It's kind of funny that when meeting these fine > > > people, we've had plenty of mutual amusement at each other's use of > > > language (for example, when a British engineer offered to "knock up" > > > me in the morning on our way to a conference). > > > It's certainly funny at times, I believe the venerable English phrase > > "keep your pecker up" gets the US schoolboys sniggering. > > As does going for a drag on a fag. > > > > > > But "sucks" never > > > needed explanation or translation. Seems the dividing lines between > > > American, Canadian, British, and Australian English is fairly fluid, > > > because I can find "sucks" in every on-line slang dictionary for every > > > major English-speaking country. > > > Yes I expect all these slang dictionaries include slang from all English > > speaking countries and don't reflect national usage e.g. the word > > "bollocks", which is commonly used in Britain and considered mildly(?) > > offensive, is in US slang dictionaries but AFAIK isn't used much in the > > US. We're getting way off topic here but bollocks is an very versatile > > word, seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bollocks. One usage even denotes > > excellence. > > I shan't look, but I'll bet it's dogs. And I must admit to a fondness > for "it's the dog's doughnuts". No, I don't know what it literally > means, but it denotes excellence. > > > > > > > > > > > > Some of these references go the extra > > > mile (or is it kilometer for you?) and attempt etymologies that > > > reference everything from a sex act to the reaction people have eating > > > lemons to how weasels suck the contents from eggs. > > > The last company I worked for exhorted the staff to "go the extra mile" > > when they needed to improve profits, the management didn't think it > > funny when we said we were scientists & engineers so we can only go the > > extra km. > > > > If comp.lang.forth was a scholarly journal or professional > > > association, I would not have used "sucks." Not because it's > > > necessarily inappropriate, but because in such contexts, it's far more > > > fun (and funny) to come up with droll constructions like "the memory > > > performance of symtab relative to hash tables proves to be sub-optimal > > > for real-world datasets, but has excellent performance otherwise." Or > > > maybe, "the author of symtab offers a non-traditional metric for the > > > algorithm's effectiveness based on sheer repetition of claims." Or > > > possibly, "by prioritizing for cumulative frequency over locality of > > > reference, symtab demonstrates optimal performance suited for an > > > exotic use-case that has yet to be discovered." > > > > Or, I suppose, one could just say it sucks. > > > That's certainly more sucksinct than both the above and the British > > equivalent "a load of bollocks". > > > -- > > Gerry Dogs bollocks. Dogs doughnuts Dogs doodahs Poodles plums! Take yer pick!
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| From | Jan Coombs <jan_2011-02@murray-microft.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-12 21:51 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <X92dnQsOYcBKLoHTnZ2dnUVZ8i2dnZ2d@brightview.co.uk> |
| In reply to | #4004 |
On 11/07/11 21:41, Alex McDonald wrote: > I shan't look, but I'll bet it's dogs. And I must admit to a fondness > for "it's the dog's doughnuts". No, I don't know what it literally > means, but it denotes excellence. http://www.beerlabels.com/labels/labels.pl/2623/the-dogs-bollocks-beer.html And, thanks for the continuing education.
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| From | Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-09 16:49 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <aef0df9d-a801-4a7b-9c67-9cb21aaf1c08@y13g2000prb.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #3890 |
On Jul 8, 10:47 am, Gerry Jackson <ge...@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk>
wrote:
> On 08/07/2011 11:31, Andrew Haley wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Gerry Jackson<ge...@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> >> On 07/07/2011 22:08, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
> >>> On Jul 7, 3:32 am, Gerry Jackson<ge...@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> On 07/07/2011 00:19, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
> >>>>> Of course, Elizabeth Rather has stated
> >>>>> that the novice package was "written by a novice" (yuk! yuk!).
>
> >>>> I don't remember that, can you provide a link?
>
> >>>http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.forth/browse_thread/thread/6...
>
> >> So she did, that was gratuitously rude of her in that particular
> >> case, most uncharacteristic I would have thought.
>
> > In context it was a fair comment, as you can see.
>
> Not really, if you take the wider context I think it was well known then
> that Hugh had worked professionally with Forth and so wasn't a novice.
>
> > It's exactly the
> > sort of code that enthusiastic Forth programmers write before they
> > "get it": much too complex and full of unnecessary features. Many
> > people go through this stage; Elizabeth is sure to have seen it many
> > time.
>
> True but I bet she didn't put down genuine novices like that, perhaps
> she was retaliating. Anyway many of us write non-optimal code or make
> mistakes at times.
>
> --
> Gerry
At the time, I didn't think that it was a mistake to use MOD for ALIGN
and ALIGNED --- they execute at compile-time, so speed isn't an issue,
and doing it this way allows for support of processors such as the
eZ80 that have a 3-byte word. On the other hand, MOD is signed, which
means that it won't work in the high half of the memory, so MOD is a
mistake in that respect --- because of this, I switched over to using
logic for ALIGN and ALIGNED rather than MOD in the next release of the
novice package.
All of this talk about the correct implementation of ALIGN and ALIGNED
is just a distraction from the fact that I paid almost $500 for my
copy of SwiftForth (v2), and it has glaring problems in it, such as
fact that ALIGN and ALIGNED don't actually do anything. Also, (LOCAL)
has a bug in it that crashes the system. Almost no code optimization
is being done, so the system is abysmally slow, and there are myriad
other problems as well. Elizabeth Rather really scammed me out of my
money, and then to add insult to injury, she calls me a novice. I
should never have given her a dime, but as you said, we all make
mistakes at times. When I have complained about the horrible problems
of SwiftForth v2, she has told me that I should pay $300 to upgrade to
SwiftForth v3 which supposedly has some of the bugs fixed --- but that
would just be throwing good money after bad --- I am better off to
write my own Forth system from scratch.
It was Leon Wagner of Forth Inc. who killed ALLOCATION. Why did he do
that? Most likely, he realized that this would allow Forthers to have
a simple OOP system (inheritance but not polymorphism) on any standard
Forth system. He wants to prevent this, so that everybody will believe
that they need to spend $500 on SwiftForth in order to get SWOOP if
they are going to have any OOP at all. Forth Inc. is purposely
sabotaging Forth-200x so that a standard Forth system will lack
features --- the Forthers will have to pay $$$ for a commercial
system, or write their own system from scratch, to get these features
--- and most will just fork over the money.
Forth-200x is cripple-ware. It is not just a waste of time to be a
part of Forth-200x, but doing so actually undermines Forth. Forth-200x
is just a big nothing. Those guys are spending their time talking
about adding N>R and NR> to the standard. WTF? Those words are trivial
to implement in ANS-Forth, and they are also useless (at least, I
can't think of any use for them). This reminds me a lot of that movie
I mentioned ("Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee") in which the Injuns were
encouraged to attend meetings and endlessly debate meaningless
trivialities (with every man getting a chance to speak, of course),
and never mind the fact that everything they cared about was being
destroyed. Those people who got massacred at Wounded Knee had done
nothing except stop attending the meetings. They just went off by
themselves and had their own peaceable meeting, which was the "Ghost
Dance" --- they got killed solely because they had stopped attending
the official meetings.
I think that a lot of Forthers know that Forth-200x is a bad joke, but
they ask: "What else is there?" They believe that if Forth-200x is
abandoned, the result will be anarchy, chaos, and a complete collapse
of Forth (what I parodied earlier in saying that we would be running
around in loincloths and warpaint, and waving sharpened sticks in the
air). I don't think that this is true however. If Forth-200x is
abandoned, another Forth standard will rise up in its place. This may
be my own, or it may be another's, or it may be a combination of
several that merge together. There may also be one Forth for desktop
computers and another for micro-controllers (which I think is a good
idea). The important point though, is that the standard(s) will be
worked out by people (like me) who are striving to make Forth a viable
language, rather than by sleazy salespeople who are striving to scam
everybody out of their hard earned money.
Getting back to that other movie that I mentioned ("Lord of the
Flies"), let me say that Ralph was a weak leader --- but that doesn't
mean that Jack is the only alternative --- this is a false dichotomy.
Somebody made of stiffer stuff than Ralph could have risen up to
become the new leader --- most likely Simon, if he hadn't been
murdered.
P.S. Everybody please stop jabbering about mainframe computers! I
worked for almost 2 years as an IBM370 assembly-language programmer,
and it nearly bored me to death (I became a caffeine addict and went
through withdrawals after I left that job and stopped drinking coffee
to get through every day). Only stuffed shirts care about mainframes
--- so stop cluttering up comp.lang.forth will all that foolishness
--- none of this has anything at all to do with Forth.
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| From | Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-11 04:27 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <040fe3b4-4317-4db1-b3b5-8041c3eaa3d5@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #3914 |
On Jul 10, 12:49 am, Hugh Aguilar <hughaguila...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jul 8, 10:47 am, Gerry Jackson <ge...@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 08/07/2011 11:31, Andrew Haley wrote:
>
> > > Gerry Jackson<ge...@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> > >> On 07/07/2011 22:08, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
> > >>> On Jul 7, 3:32 am, Gerry Jackson<ge...@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>> On 07/07/2011 00:19, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
> > >>>>> Of course, Elizabeth Rather has stated
> > >>>>> that the novice package was "written by a novice" (yuk! yuk!).
>
> > >>>> I don't remember that, can you provide a link?
>
> > >>>http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.forth/browse_thread/thread/6...
>
> > >> So she did, that was gratuitously rude of her in that particular
> > >> case, most uncharacteristic I would have thought.
>
> > > In context it was a fair comment, as you can see.
>
> > Not really, if you take the wider context I think it was well known then
> > that Hugh had worked professionally with Forth and so wasn't a novice.
>
> > > It's exactly the
> > > sort of code that enthusiastic Forth programmers write before they
> > > "get it": much too complex and full of unnecessary features. Many
> > > people go through this stage; Elizabeth is sure to have seen it many
> > > time.
>
> > True but I bet she didn't put down genuine novices like that, perhaps
> > she was retaliating. Anyway many of us write non-optimal code or make
> > mistakes at times.
>
> > --
> > Gerry
>
> At the time, I didn't think that it was a mistake to use MOD for ALIGN
> and ALIGNED --- they execute at compile-time, so speed isn't an issue,
> and doing it this way allows for support of processors such as the
> eZ80 that have a 3-byte word. On the other hand, MOD is signed, which
> means that it won't work in the high half of the memory, so MOD is a
> mistake in that respect --- because of this, I switched over to using
> logic for ALIGN and ALIGNED rather than MOD in the next release of the
> novice package.
>
> All of this talk about the correct implementation of ALIGN and ALIGNED
> is just a distraction from the fact that I paid almost $500 for my
> copy of SwiftForth (v2), and it has glaring problems in it, such as
> fact that ALIGN and ALIGNED don't actually do anything. Also, (LOCAL)
> has a bug in it that crashes the system. Almost no code optimization
> is being done, so the system is abysmally slow, and there are myriad
> other problems as well. Elizabeth Rather really scammed me out of my
> money, and then to add insult to injury, she calls me a novice. I
> should never have given her a dime, but as you said, we all make
> mistakes at times. When I have complained about the horrible problems
> of SwiftForth v2, she has told me that I should pay $300 to upgrade to
> SwiftForth v3 which supposedly has some of the bugs fixed --- but that
> would just be throwing good money after bad --- I am better off to
> write my own Forth system from scratch.
>
> It was Leon Wagner of Forth Inc. who killed ALLOCATION. Why did he do
> that? Most likely, he realized that this would allow Forthers to have
> a simple OOP system (inheritance but not polymorphism) on any standard
> Forth system. He wants to prevent this, so that everybody will believe
> that they need to spend $500 on SwiftForth in order to get SWOOP if
> they are going to have any OOP at all. Forth Inc. is purposely
> sabotaging Forth-200x so that a standard Forth system will lack
> features --- the Forthers will have to pay $$$ for a commercial
> system, or write their own system from scratch, to get these features
> --- and most will just fork over the money.
>
> Forth-200x is cripple-ware. It is not just a waste of time to be a
> part of Forth-200x, but doing so actually undermines Forth. Forth-200x
> is just a big nothing. Those guys are spending their time talking
> about adding N>R and NR> to the standard. WTF? Those words are trivial
> to implement in ANS-Forth, and they are also useless (at least, I
> can't think of any use for them). This reminds me a lot of that movie
> I mentioned ("Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee") in which the Injuns were
> encouraged to attend meetings and endlessly debate meaningless
> trivialities (with every man getting a chance to speak, of course),
> and never mind the fact that everything they cared about was being
> destroyed. Those people who got massacred at Wounded Knee had done
> nothing except stop attending the meetings. They just went off by
> themselves and had their own peaceable meeting, which was the "Ghost
> Dance" --- they got killed solely because they had stopped attending
> the official meetings.
>
> I think that a lot of Forthers know that Forth-200x is a bad joke, but
> they ask: "What else is there?" They believe that if Forth-200x is
> abandoned, the result will be anarchy, chaos, and a complete collapse
> of Forth (what I parodied earlier in saying that we would be running
> around in loincloths and warpaint, and waving sharpened sticks in the
> air). I don't think that this is true however. If Forth-200x is
> abandoned, another Forth standard will rise up in its place. This may
> be my own, or it may be another's, or it may be a combination of
> several that merge together. There may also be one Forth for desktop
> computers and another for micro-controllers (which I think is a good
> idea). The important point though, is that the standard(s) will be
> worked out by people (like me) who are striving to make Forth a viable
> language, rather than by sleazy salespeople who are striving to scam
> everybody out of their hard earned money.
>
> Getting back to that other movie that I mentioned ("Lord of the
> Flies"), let me say that Ralph was a weak leader --- but that doesn't
> mean that Jack is the only alternative --- this is a false dichotomy.
> Somebody made of stiffer stuff than Ralph could have risen up to
> become the new leader --- most likely Simon, if he hadn't been
> murdered.
>
> P.S. Everybody please stop jabbering about mainframe computers! I
> worked for almost 2 years as an IBM370 assembly-language programmer,
> and it nearly bored me to death (I became a caffeine addict and went
> through withdrawals after I left that job and stopped drinking coffee
> to get through every day). Only stuffed shirts care about mainframes
> --- so stop cluttering up comp.lang.forth will all that foolishness
> --- none of this has anything at all to do with Forth.
I take it that your cluttering up clf with film synopses and endless
conspiracy theories is exempt?
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| From | Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-07 14:53 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <1c68943a-5bc1-4e58-ba3e-14c10382484e@fv14g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #3848 |
On Jul 7, 3:32 am, Gerry Jackson <ge...@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> wrote: > On 07/07/2011 00:19, Hugh Aguilar wrote: > > The point that he was making, is that the > > decisions had already been made; the meeting was just a charade > > intended to give the people the illusion that they had debated the > > matter and that they had lost the debate, but there really was no way > > that they were going to get what they wanted. > > I agree, I've been to enough so-called consultation meetings where the > workforce's opinions have been ignored. Perhaps I've worked for > different types of companies, in my experience people aren't afraid to > voice their opinions, they just get ignored. But this is irrelevant to > Forth200X. Last night I watched the movie: "Lord of the Flies." I've seen this before (I watch it whenever I'm depressed), and I've read the book a few times as well. Meetings were a big deal in that story. So long as Ralph could blow the conch shell and call a meeting, then civilization continued to exist. The conch shell represented civilization (I figured that out myself, without even reading the Cliff Notes). The meetings might be a charade, but that is what civilization is all about! At one time however, Ralph himself admitted that the meetings were useless. They would resolve to do worthy things like build shelters or keep the fire going, and everybody would heartily agree, but then nothing would get done. He thought that he could suggest that they build a jet airplane out of sticks and fly off the island that way, and everybody would heartily agree, and that that plan would work out as well as everything else that they had agreed on. Getting back to Forth200x, those guys recently were discussing the importance of supporting the Chinese language Han character set in Forth-200x. This reminds me a lot of Ralph's jet airplane built out of sticks! Those guys know as much about the Chinese language as I do, which is nothing. As I said though, having meetings is what civilization is all about, and we have to talk about something at the meetings --- so the Han character set is as good of a topic as any! I'm not going to attend Forth200x meetings any more --- I'm going to wear a loincloth and warpaint, and run around waving a sharpened stick in the air! LOL
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| From | Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-28 11:57 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <j0rfbf$5n8$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #3843 |
On 07/07/2011 00:19, Hugh Aguilar wrote: > On Jul 6, 8:45 am, Gerry Jackson<ge...@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> > wrote: >> On 05/07/2011 04:57, Hugh Aguilar wrote: >>> I really doubt that anybody has ever used FFL for any application. >>> Just the ugly naming convention alone precludes this. Also, FFL >>> doesn't have any features. [...] >>> As I have >>> said, I have never heard of anybody writing any application program >>> using FFL, and I doubt that it could be done anyway --- so FFL has >>> never been tested in the crucible of application-writing. >> >> I see - if you haven't heard of something it has never happened. > > You haven't given me any example of FFL being used in an application > program, so you don't know of any either! > Look what I *accidentally* stumbled across while looking for HTML generators. http://drdobbs.com/web-development/212501814?pgno=2 You have now heard of an application using the FFL, so please don't make that claim again -- Gerry
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| From | Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-07-29 21:54 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <1214302d-c778-4fbc-9485-00d297a1e4ee@t8g2000prm.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #4463 |
On Jul 28, 4:57 am, Gerry Jackson <ge...@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> wrote: > On 07/07/2011 00:19, Hugh Aguilar wrote: > > > On Jul 6, 8:45 am, Gerry Jackson<ge...@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> > > wrote: > >> On 05/07/2011 04:57, Hugh Aguilar wrote: > >>> I really doubt that anybody has ever used FFL for any application. > >>> Just the ugly naming convention alone precludes this. Also, FFL > >>> doesn't have any features. > > [...] > > >>> As I have > >>> said, I have never heard of anybody writing any application program > >>> using FFL, and I doubt that it could be done anyway --- so FFL has > >>> never been tested in the crucible of application-writing. > > >> I see - if you haven't heard of something it has never happened. > > > You haven't given me any example of FFL being used in an application > > program, so you don't know of any either! > > Look what I *accidentally* stumbled across while looking for HTML > generators. > > http://drdobbs.com/web-development/212501814?pgno=2 > > You have now heard of an application using the FFL, so please don't make > that claim again > > -- > Gerry Well, that proves it! FFL is better than my novice package! lol I've examined FFL, and I know that it isn't any good --- and no application based on FFL is going to be any good either. Have you even looked at FFL? Is this steaming heap of ugly Forth code really something that you want to associate yourself with? I'm guessing that you know as much about FFL as you know about that html-generating application, which is nothing --- and that is more than you know about my novice package. So far, all that you have accomplished is reading an article in Dr. Dobb's (which isn't a good source of info on programming nowadays the way that it was back in the 1980s, as there was a change in management a few years back, which is why I don't bother reading it anymore). Other than your ability to read articles in Dr. Dobb's, what do you take pride in? This reminds me of a Dilbert cartoon in which Dilbert was describing some algorithm, and the pointy-haired boss asked him: "Where did you read about that?" So Dilbert gets mad and asks why it is assumed that he must have read it about it somewhere, rather than that he thought it up himself. He isn't the kind of programmer who reads articles in glossy magazines and then tells everybody about them in an effort to appear smart, he asserts. Wally then asks with amazement: "You can read?" What I'm saying is: get a life --- find something to do with your time other than trying to convince me that my novice package sucks --- you put yourself in the same category as Passaniti when you do that, which isn't a good category to be in by anybody's standards (other than Elizabeth Rather; she presumably is *very* impressed, for whatever that is worth to you).
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