Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final

From	Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final
Date	2013-08-15 23:52 +0200
Organization	1&1 Internet AG
Message-ID	<kujiih$1jr$1@online.de> (permalink)
References	(8 earlier) <kugel1$jhe$1@dont-email.me> <D6WdnZr5itMSQpbPnZ2dnUVZ_oydnZ2d@supernews.com> <kuie8o$ll8$1@dont-email.me> <AsydnZufK8qcVJHPnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@supernews.com> <2013Aug15.145054@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>

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Anton Ertl wrote:

> Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>>We already know what the intent of the proposer was, and it was not
>>what you say.
> 
> But the question is what the intent of the committee was.  The
> requirement for SYNONYM stated in the CfV is
> 
> |<newname> will behave identically to <oldname>
> 
> without mentioning any exceptions.
> 
> If the proposer did not intend that, it was he who did a
> bait-and-switch trick.  My guess, though, is that he did not think
> about >BODY, TO, IS etc., just like I did not.

The proposal mentions ALIAS, which takes an xt, and we have about 30 years 
of experience with it.  The problem with ALIAS is addressed by the proposal: 
it takes an xt, which is not sufficient, because you don't know about 
immediacy, and the standard even allows weird things like dual-xts words and 
such things, where a single xt simply can't do what's necessary.

The reference implementation was said to be inappropriate, because the 
problem with SYNONYM is exactly that: It's not possible to implement it with 
standard words.  I'm sure I've pointed out that the reference implementation 
is bogus and won't work, but the quick defense was that this is the 
particular reason why it needs to go into the standard, because it requires 
carnal knowledge to do it right.

Maybe Anton didn't think about all the corner cases, but the thing I 
implemented in Gforth as SYNONYM does work perfectly on all that stuff.  The 
implementation in bigForth works perfectly, too.  And we have identified at 
least three other Forth systems that do work perfectly, as well, so I'm not 
the only one capable of doing this right.  Anton didn't think about the 
corner cases, but he thought about implementability, and it is indeed 
implementable in Gforth (though it didn't get into Gforth 0.7.x, and the 
current implementation uses something that wouldn't be possible in 0.7.x).

The proposal is frank and says that newname and oldname have identical 
effects, it is implementable, and if you have questions about how to 
implement it properly, I can certainly assist.

Essentially, all you have to do is to change your NAME> or whatever you call 
it to get from the NFA to the XT so that it recognizes synonyms and does a @ 
of the xt (or maybe nt, if an xt is not enough) stored there.  It requires 
to add one word and change one other word, it is *not* a big deal.  You can 
recognize synonyms by the DOES> code if you like so; no special header flag 
bit required.

Please, people, calm down.  And don't panic!

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://bernd-paysan.de/

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RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-12 21:08 +0100
  Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-12 17:02 -0500
  Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-13 06:40 +0000
    Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-13 15:47 +0100
  Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-08-13 08:30 +0000
    Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-13 03:49 -0500
      Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-08-13 12:10 +0000
        Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final graham <"s\" xyzgrahams@tectime.com\" 3 /string"> - 2013-08-14 11:51 +0100
        Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-14 11:11 +0000
          Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-14 07:08 -0500
            Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-14 13:22 +0000
              SYNONYM (was: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-14 13:34 +0000
                Re: SYNONYM (was: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-08-15 12:46 +0000
                Re: SYNONYM (was: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-15 14:44 +0000
                Re: SYNONYM (was: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final) peter.m.falth@gmail.com - 2013-08-15 08:09 -0700
              Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-14 09:40 -0500
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-14 16:39 +0100
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-14 11:32 -0500
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-14 18:26 +0100
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-14 14:50 -0500
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2013-08-14 10:28 -1000
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-15 12:04 +0100
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-15 07:20 -0500
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-08-15 08:23 +0100
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-15 03:16 -0500
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-15 12:32 +0100
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-15 07:26 -0500
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-15 12:50 +0000
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-15 08:55 -0500
                SYNONYM (was: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-15 14:05 +0000
                Re: SYNONYM Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-15 09:16 -0500
                Re: SYNONYM "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-15 16:07 +0100
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-15 23:52 +0200
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-16 07:22 -0500
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-16 13:39 +0100
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-16 08:25 -0500
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-16 18:54 +0100
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-16 13:13 -0500
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-16 13:16 +0000
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-16 09:01 -0500
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-16 14:23 +0000
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-16 22:14 +0200
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-16 21:46 +0200
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-17 03:08 -0500
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-16 13:42 +0000
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-16 22:12 +0200
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-17 12:29 +0000
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Graham Smith <"s\" xyzgrahams@tectime.com\" 3 /string"> - 2013-08-16 17:36 +0100
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-16 12:00 -0500
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-16 18:56 +0100
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-16 13:07 -0500
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-16 19:18 +0100
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Graham Smith <"s\" not@gray@forthman.plus.com\" 4 /string"> - 2013-08-16 20:22 +0100
          Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-08-14 14:42 +0000
      Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-08-14 12:40 +0000
        Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-14 06:20 -0700
          Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-08-14 06:23 -0700
    Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-13 15:47 +0100

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