Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final

From	anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final
Date	2013-08-16 13:42 +0000
Organization	Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien
Message-ID	<2013Aug16.154246@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> (permalink)
References	(7 earlier) <D6WdnZr5itMSQpbPnZ2dnUVZ_oydnZ2d@supernews.com> <kuie8o$ll8$1@dont-email.me> <AsydnZufK8qcVJHPnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@supernews.com> <2013Aug15.145054@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <kujiih$1jr$1@online.de>

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Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> writes:
>Anton Ertl wrote:
>
>> Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>>>We already know what the intent of the proposer was, and it was not
>>>what you say.
>> 
>> But the question is what the intent of the committee was.  The
>> requirement for SYNONYM stated in the CfV is
>> 
>> |<newname> will behave identically to <oldname>
>> 
>> without mentioning any exceptions.
>> 
>> If the proposer did not intend that, it was he who did a
>> bait-and-switch trick.  My guess, though, is that he did not think
>> about >BODY, TO, IS etc., just like I did not.
...
>Maybe Anton didn't think about all the corner cases, but the thing I 
>implemented in Gforth as SYNONYM does work perfectly on all that stuff.  The 
>implementation in bigForth works perfectly, too.  And we have identified at 
>least three other Forth systems that do work perfectly, as well, so I'm not 
>the only one capable of doing this right.

Sure, if you take the right implementation approach, you get it right
for the corner cases without thinking about them.

What I was referring to was the specification, which specifies only
interpretation and compilation semantics.  None of us thought about
specifying that the synonym behaves like the original (as stated in
the requirements) for >BODY TO, and the words for accessing DEFERred
words.

What I learned from this:

Wrt specification: Name, interpretation semantics and compilation
semantics are not the only properties of a word.

Wrt implementation: a proper SYNONYM/ALIAS pretty much needs a kind of
name indirection mechanism at some level.  Attempts to tack SYNONYM on
a system that does not have such a mechanism without implementing such
a mechanism are likely to be complicated and miss corner cases.  OTOH,
adding such an indirection mechanism is not that complicated.

>  Anton didn't think about the 
>corner cases, but he thought about implementability, and it is indeed 
>implementable in Gforth (though it didn't get into Gforth 0.7.x

Gforth 0.7.0 was released in 2008, and SYNONYM was voted on in 2010.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2013: http://www.euroforth.org/ef13/

Thread

RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-12 21:08 +0100
  Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-12 17:02 -0500
  Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-13 06:40 +0000
    Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-13 15:47 +0100
  Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-08-13 08:30 +0000
    Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-13 03:49 -0500
      Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-08-13 12:10 +0000
        Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final graham <"s\" xyzgrahams@tectime.com\" 3 /string"> - 2013-08-14 11:51 +0100
        Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-14 11:11 +0000
          Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-14 07:08 -0500
            Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-14 13:22 +0000
              SYNONYM (was: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-14 13:34 +0000
                Re: SYNONYM (was: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-08-15 12:46 +0000
                Re: SYNONYM (was: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-15 14:44 +0000
                Re: SYNONYM (was: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final) peter.m.falth@gmail.com - 2013-08-15 08:09 -0700
              Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-14 09:40 -0500
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-14 16:39 +0100
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-14 11:32 -0500
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-14 18:26 +0100
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-14 14:50 -0500
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2013-08-14 10:28 -1000
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-15 12:04 +0100
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-15 07:20 -0500
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-08-15 08:23 +0100
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-15 03:16 -0500
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-15 12:32 +0100
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-15 07:26 -0500
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-15 12:50 +0000
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-15 08:55 -0500
                SYNONYM (was: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-15 14:05 +0000
                Re: SYNONYM Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-15 09:16 -0500
                Re: SYNONYM "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-15 16:07 +0100
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-15 23:52 +0200
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-16 07:22 -0500
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-16 13:39 +0100
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-16 08:25 -0500
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-16 18:54 +0100
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-16 13:13 -0500
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-16 13:16 +0000
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-16 09:01 -0500
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-16 14:23 +0000
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-16 22:14 +0200
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-16 21:46 +0200
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-17 03:08 -0500
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-16 13:42 +0000
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-16 22:12 +0200
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-17 12:29 +0000
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Graham Smith <"s\" xyzgrahams@tectime.com\" 3 /string"> - 2013-08-16 17:36 +0100
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-16 12:00 -0500
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-16 18:56 +0100
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-16 13:07 -0500
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-16 19:18 +0100
                Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Graham Smith <"s\" not@gray@forthman.plus.com\" 4 /string"> - 2013-08-16 20:22 +0100
          Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-08-14 14:42 +0000
      Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-08-14 12:40 +0000
        Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-14 06:20 -0700
          Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-08-14 06:23 -0700
    Re: RfD v7: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST final "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-13 15:47 +0100

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