Re: LatestXT

From	Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: LatestXT
Date	2011-12-10 10:18 +0000
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<jbvblu$mu5$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	<jbrsic$ne4$1@dont-email.me> <r9adnS27yc-kRXzTnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@supernews.com> <2011Dec9.142623@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <jbujdi$bk0$1@dont-email.me> <6vadnZnxb5N0QX_TnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@supernews.com>

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On Fri, 09 Dec 2011 18:15:37 -1000, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:

> On 12/9/11 5:24 PM, Arnold Doray wrote:
>> On Fri, 09 Dec 2011 13:26:23 +0000, Anton Ertl wrote:
>>
>>
>>> This feature should be easy to insert into any standard Forth:
>>>
>>> Add a possibly (USERized) VALUE LATESTXT, and in every place where an
>>> xt is defined, add an "is latestxt".
>>>
>>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> To be honest, I could live with just better standardized behaviour for
>> :NONAME as it is called within a word. For example,
>>
>> : def :noname .S ;
>>
>> GForth and BigForth behave this way:
>>
>> def ." rover" ;<5>  5015480 0 0 5015480 0  ok<-- GForth def ." rover"
>> ;<2>  268642316 0  ok<-- BigForth
>>
>> These forths leave junk on the stack making retrieving the :NONAME's xt
>> "unportable".
>>
>> But GForth has LATESTXT which is nicer than just a clean stack since
>> the xt is saved. And it also works for definitions made with CREATE.
>>
>> VFX and SwiftForth are much better behaved:
>>
>> def ." rover" ;
>>
>> DATA STACK
>>       top
>>        134990068 080B:C8F4
>>   ok-1<-- VFX.
>>
>> SwiftForth is the same. Both leave a clean stack with just the
>> :NONAME's xt on it.
>>
>> I am *guessing* that GForth and BigForth don't serialize the execution
>> of :NONAME and .S , so .S sees the stack as the :NONAME is in partial
>> execution?
>>
>> In any case, some standardization of this behaviour would be welcome.
> 
> Remember all the discussion about colon-sys and whether colon leaves
> stuff on the stack to be discarded by semi-colon?  That's what you're
> seeing.  :noname leaves a colon-sys, as does colon.  On some systems
> that's nothing, on others it's stuff, and exactly what (if anything) it
> is implementation-dependent.
> 

Yes, I am aware that both : and :NONAME can leave "turds" on the stack 
while they are parsing input. That's acceptable. But I would have thought 
that the terminating ; in the input stream of :

def ." rover" ; 

would have to run and clean up :NONAME's stack turds before the next word 
in DEF (ie, .S) executes. But from my example, it appears that this isn't 
necessarily the case. 

Certainly, GForth and BigForth behave as if the .S is executed before 
the :NONAME encounters the terminating ; in the input stream. 

IMO, this is a separate issue from the colon-sys discussion, and is 
really about :NONAME's runtime behaviour.

If :NONAME's runtime behaviour were standardized, then actions could be 
taken at compile time (ie, in DEF) to save/manipulate/execute the 
anonymous function created by :NONAME. But you can't do that now, or at 
least have to rely on non-standard words like LATESTXT. 

>
> Personally, I'm no big fan of :noname, and using it in a definition is,
> to me, rarely a good idea.
> 

I first saw the use of :NONAME in a definition in the '94 spec, and 
thought it was "Forth Way". 

Could you share your reasons for not liking :NONAME? 
How else to create words that can parse the input stream?

Thanks,
Arnold

Thread

LatestXT Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-12-09 02:42 +0000
  Re: LatestXT Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-12-09 03:43 -0600
    Re: LatestXT Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-12-09 13:12 +0000
    Re: LatestXT anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-12-09 13:26 +0000
      Re: LatestXT Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-12-09 12:41 -0600
        Re: LatestXT anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-12-10 12:24 +0000
          Re: LatestXT Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-12-10 12:04 -0600
            Re: LatestXT anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-12-11 11:02 +0000
              Re: LatestXT Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-12-11 12:21 -0600
                Re: LatestXT anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-12-12 17:35 +0000
                Re: LatestXT Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-12-13 05:19 -0600
                Re: LatestXT anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-12-13 15:12 +0000
                Re: LatestXT Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-12-13 11:55 -0600
          Re: LatestXT Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2011-12-15 16:30 -0800
            Re: LatestXT anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-12-16 17:11 +0000
              Re: LatestXT BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2011-12-16 16:15 -0800
                Re: LatestXT Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-12-17 03:22 -0600
                Re: LatestXT Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-12-17 15:34 +0000
                Re: LatestXT Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2011-12-17 08:04 -0800
                Re: LatestXT Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-12-17 17:20 +0000
                Re: LatestXT Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-12-17 12:38 -0600
                Re: LatestXT Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-12-18 04:01 +0000
                Re: LatestXT BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2011-12-17 22:06 -0800
                Re: LatestXT Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-12-18 11:47 +0000
                Re: LatestXT BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2011-12-18 08:51 -0800
                Re: LatestXT Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-12-19 01:14 +0000
                Re: LatestXT BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2011-12-18 18:59 -0800
                Re: LatestXT Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-12-18 04:40 -0600
                Re: LatestXT Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-12-18 11:31 +0000
                Re: LatestXT Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-12-18 06:21 -0600
                Re: LatestXT Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-12-18 12:55 +0000
                Re: LatestXT Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-12-19 03:27 -0600
                Re: LatestXT Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2011-12-18 07:21 -0800
                Re: LatestXT Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-12-19 01:02 +0000
                Re: LatestXT Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2011-12-18 17:32 -0800
                Re: LatestXT BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2011-12-17 09:43 -0800
                Re: LatestXT Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2011-12-19 20:40 +0000
                Re: LatestXT BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2011-12-17 09:38 -0800
                Re: LatestXT Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-12-18 01:08 -0800
                Re: LatestXT Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-12-18 01:38 -0800
                Re: LatestXT Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2011-12-18 13:13 +0100
                Re: LatestXT BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2011-12-18 08:55 -0800
      Re: LatestXT "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2011-12-09 09:36 -1000
      Re: LatestXT Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-12-10 03:24 +0000
        Re: LatestXT BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2011-12-09 20:12 -0800
        Re: LatestXT "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2011-12-09 18:15 -1000
          Re: LatestXT Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-12-10 10:18 +0000
            Re: LatestXT anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-12-10 11:39 +0000
              Re: LatestXT Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-12-10 16:31 +0000
                Re: LatestXT Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2011-12-10 23:03 +0100
                Re: LatestXT Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-12-11 02:34 +0000
                Re: LatestXT "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2011-12-10 18:01 -1000
                Re: LatestXT Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-12-11 09:46 +0000
                Re: LatestXT Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-12-11 03:55 -0600
                Re: LatestXT Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-12-11 11:35 +0000
                Re: LatestXT "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2011-12-11 10:59 -1000
                Re: LatestXT Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-12-12 02:19 +0000
                Re: LatestXT "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2011-12-11 17:38 -1000
                Re: LatestXT Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2011-12-12 13:22 +0100
                Re: LatestXT stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2011-12-12 10:34 +0000
                Re: LatestXT Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-12-12 12:32 +0000
                Re: LatestXT stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2011-12-12 14:55 +0000
                Re: LatestXT Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-12-12 16:18 +0000
                Re: LatestXT BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2011-12-12 09:09 -0800
                Re: LatestXT Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-12-12 17:51 +0000
                Re: LatestXT Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-12-12 12:03 -0600
                Re: LatestXT BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2011-12-12 10:51 -0800
                Re: LatestXT Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-12-13 12:16 +0000
                Re: LatestXT anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-12-13 15:11 +0000
                Re: LatestXT "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2011-12-13 08:00 -1000
                Re: LatestXT anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-12-12 18:18 +0000
                Re: LatestXT BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2011-12-11 13:26 -0800
                Re: LatestXT Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-12-12 03:51 -0600
                Re: LatestXT Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-12-12 11:14 +0000
                Re: LatestXT Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-12-12 05:37 -0600
                Re: LatestXT Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-12-12 12:54 +0000
                Re: LatestXT BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2011-12-11 11:05 -0800
                Re: LatestXT Josh Grams <josh@qualdan.com> - 2011-12-11 23:25 +0000
                Re: LatestXT BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2011-12-11 16:58 -0800
                Re: LatestXT anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-12-12 17:21 +0000
                Re: LatestXT Josh Grams <josh@qualdan.com> - 2011-12-12 21:50 +0000
                Re: LatestXT anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-12-13 16:44 +0000
                Re: LatestXT Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2011-12-13 22:13 +0000
                Re: LatestXT Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-12-13 11:46 +0000
                Re: LatestXT BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2011-12-13 04:28 -0800
                Re: LatestXT Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-12-14 05:40 +0000
                Re: LatestXT "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2011-12-13 21:24 -1000
                Re: LatestXT Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-12-14 04:05 -0600
                Re: LatestXT Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-12-20 03:48 -0800
                Re: LatestXT Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-12-20 08:59 -0600
                Re: LatestXT Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-12-12 03:21 +0000
                Re: LatestXT "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2011-12-11 17:52 -1000
                Re: LatestXT anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-12-12 12:41 +0000
                Re: LatestXT Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2011-12-12 15:00 +0100
                Re: LatestXT BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2011-12-12 09:37 -0800
                Re: LatestXT anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-12-11 10:43 +0000
                Re: LatestXT anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-12-11 10:21 +0000
                Re: LatestXT Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2011-12-12 12:58 +0100
                Re: LatestXT Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-12-11 03:35 -0600
                Re: LatestXT anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-12-11 10:47 +0000
                Re: LatestXT Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-12-12 03:54 -0600
                Re: LatestXT anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-12-12 17:20 +0000
                Re: LatestXT Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-12-12 11:53 -0600
                Re: LatestXT BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2011-12-10 14:21 -0800
                Re: LatestXT Arnold Doray <thinksquared@gmail.com> - 2011-12-11 02:37 +0000
                Re: LatestXT BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2011-12-11 11:13 -0800
                Re: LatestXT anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-12-11 11:25 +0000
                Re: LatestXT "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2011-12-11 08:55 -1000
        Re: LatestXT Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-12-10 02:49 -0600
          Re: LatestXT anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-12-10 12:06 +0000
            Re: LatestXT Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-12-10 12:11 -0600
          Re: LatestXT Josh Grams <josh@qualdan.com> - 2011-12-10 12:33 +0000
      Re: LatestXT Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2011-12-10 18:52 +0000
        Re: LatestXT anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-12-11 10:50 +0000

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