Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions

From	dxf <dxforth@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions
Date	2025-06-08 00:06 +1000
Organization	i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID	<8a96d5a50e33757a15ba472d5fa3ae9a171fcff2@i2pn2.org> (permalink)
References	(4 earlier) <nnd$470dff8c$593b4849@31279367604044df> <101vl9b$2fvp7$1@dont-email.me> <1acbb08dc9aec99e221532a95f93170fa7dbd839@i2pn2.org> <1020f14$2phcg$1@dont-email.me> <2025Jun7.114356@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>

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On 7/06/2025 7:43 pm, Anton Ertl wrote:
> sean@conman.org writes:
>>  Why not?  This was a learning experience for me, as this is my first
>> actual Forth implementation [1].  The ANS Forth 2012 standard gave me a
>> target to aim for.  Guess I shouldn't have bothered then.
> 
> Don't let the usual naysayers discourage you.  You took your choices,
> based on reasonable criteria, and you finished what you set out to do.
> Great!
>
>>> The Standard dates backs to 1977 starting out as
>>> a list of words pulled from Kitt Peak Forth.  If KPF didn't have (.) etc well
>>> that was just too bad.  The point being nobody sat down and systematically
>>> designed the standard (or forth) ground up.  It was adhoc.  It's always been
>>> adhoc.  Moore has changed his mind numerous times.  What one sees in the Standard
>>> is a snapshot of 1977.
>>
>>  It seems to have concepts that have occured after 1977, or are you
>> speaking of some other Forth Standard, like 79 or 83?
> 
> The cool thing about dxf is that he always criticizes the standard,
> usually for innovations that he denounces as deviations from
> traditional Forth values.  Criticizing the standard because of its
> ancestry is a new twist in his postings.

The committees keep saying they're not responsible :)

>>> Even small forths can do better than what the standard offers by simply factoring
>>> out tools already present e.g.
>>>
>>> (.)  (D.)  (U.)  /CHAR  >CHAR  >DIGIT  HELD  MU*  MU/MOD  TRIM  UNNEST
>>>
>>> I'd rather have these than all the support for wordlists DEFER and other stuff
>>> the standard and folks have obsessed over.
> 
> That's the more usual stance that dxf takes.
> 
>>  Can you not implement them with ANS Forth?
> 
> He claims that these are already present in existing implementations,
> only not standardized. For (.) (D.) (U.) that's certainly not the
> case in Gforth.

I said the Standard hadn't factored them out.  Several forths of course
have factored them out.

> As for /CHAR >CHAR >DIGIT HELD MU* MU/MOD TRIM
> UNNEST, I don't know what they are supposed to do, so I cannot tell
> whether Gforth has some factors that correspond to them.

In factoring out Standard words one is admitting the Standard is lacking.

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Thread

THROW codes and ambiguous conditions dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-05-31 11:10 +1000
  Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-05-31 06:02 +0000
    Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-05-31 20:53 +1000
      Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions sjack@dontemail.me (sjack) - 2025-06-03 20:48 +0000
    Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-05-31 13:53 +0200
      Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-05-31 16:07 +0000
        Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-06-01 12:47 +0200
          Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-06-01 15:15 +0000
            Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-06-01 19:35 +0200
  Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2025-06-01 19:44 +0200
    Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-06-02 14:58 +1000
    Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-06-02 12:44 +0200
      Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2025-06-02 21:20 +0200
        Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-06-03 13:23 +1000
          Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions mhx@iae.nl (mhx) - 2025-06-03 06:04 +0000
            Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-06-04 12:03 +1000
              Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2025-06-06 12:47 +0200
          Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-06-03 06:10 +0000
            Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-06-05 00:44 +1000
              Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions sean@conman.org - 2025-06-04 19:25 +0000
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-06-05 16:09 +1000
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-06-05 12:17 +0200
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-06-06 10:47 +1000
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions sean@conman.org - 2025-06-06 06:15 +0000
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-06-06 13:00 +0200
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions sean@conman.org - 2025-06-06 21:06 +0000
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-06-07 13:10 +1000
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions sean@conman.org - 2025-06-07 04:26 +0000
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-06-07 14:42 +1000
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-06-07 09:43 +0000
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-06-08 00:06 +1000
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2025-06-07 12:58 -0700
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-06-08 01:31 +0200
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2025-06-07 18:49 -0700
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-06-08 13:36 +1000
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-06-08 08:07 +0000
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-06-08 13:34 +0200
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2025-06-10 14:11 -0700
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-06-08 12:16 +1000
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-06-08 07:56 +0000
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-06-08 13:51 +0200
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-06-09 00:45 +1000
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-06-09 12:49 +0200
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-06-09 21:36 +1000
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions zbigniew2011@gmail.com (LIT) - 2025-06-09 12:24 +0000
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions zbigniew2011@gmail.com (LIT) - 2025-06-07 14:41 +0000
              Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-06-05 12:12 +0200
          Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions John <john@somewhere> - 2025-06-03 03:43 -0500
        Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-06-03 12:30 +0200
          Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2025-06-03 15:10 +0200

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