Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions

From	anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions
Date	2025-06-07 09:43 +0000
Organization	Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien
Message-ID	<2025Jun7.114356@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> (permalink)
References	(3 earlier) <101u12p$23a54$1@dont-email.me> <nnd$470dff8c$593b4849@31279367604044df> <101vl9b$2fvp7$1@dont-email.me> <1acbb08dc9aec99e221532a95f93170fa7dbd839@i2pn2.org> <1020f14$2phcg$1@dont-email.me>

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sean@conman.org writes:
>  Why not?  This was a learning experience for me, as this is my first
>actual Forth implementation [1].  The ANS Forth 2012 standard gave me a
>target to aim for.  Guess I shouldn't have bothered then.

Don't let the usual naysayers discourage you.  You took your choices,
based on reasonable criteria, and you finished what you set out to do.
Great!

>> The Standard dates backs to 1977 starting out as
>> a list of words pulled from Kitt Peak Forth.  If KPF didn't have (.) etc well
>> that was just too bad.  The point being nobody sat down and systematically
>> designed the standard (or forth) ground up.  It was adhoc.  It's always been
>> adhoc.  Moore has changed his mind numerous times.  What one sees in the Standard
>> is a snapshot of 1977.
>
>  It seems to have concepts that have occured after 1977, or are you
>speaking of some other Forth Standard, like 79 or 83?

The cool thing about dxf is that he always criticizes the standard,
usually for innovations that he denounces as deviations from
traditional Forth values.  Criticizing the standard because of its
ancestry is a new twist in his postings.

>> Even small forths can do better than what the standard offers by simply factoring
>> out tools already present e.g.
>> 
>> (.)  (D.)  (U.)  /CHAR  >CHAR  >DIGIT  HELD  MU*  MU/MOD  TRIM  UNNEST
>> 
>> I'd rather have these than all the support for wordlists DEFER and other stuff
>> the standard and folks have obsessed over.

That's the more usual stance that dxf takes.

>  Can you not implement them with ANS Forth?

He claims that these are already present in existing implementations,
only not standardized.  For (.) (D.) (U.) that's certainly not the
case in Gforth.  As for /CHAR >CHAR >DIGIT HELD MU* MU/MOD TRIM
UNNEST, I don't know what they are supposed to do, so I cannot tell
whether Gforth has some factors that correspond to them.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: https://forth-standard.org/
EuroForth 2023 proceedings: http://www.euroforth.org/ef23/papers/
EuroForth 2024 proceedings: http://www.euroforth.org/ef24/papers/

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THROW codes and ambiguous conditions dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-05-31 11:10 +1000
  Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-05-31 06:02 +0000
    Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-05-31 20:53 +1000
      Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions sjack@dontemail.me (sjack) - 2025-06-03 20:48 +0000
    Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-05-31 13:53 +0200
      Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-05-31 16:07 +0000
        Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-06-01 12:47 +0200
          Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-06-01 15:15 +0000
            Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-06-01 19:35 +0200
  Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2025-06-01 19:44 +0200
    Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-06-02 14:58 +1000
    Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-06-02 12:44 +0200
      Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2025-06-02 21:20 +0200
        Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-06-03 13:23 +1000
          Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions mhx@iae.nl (mhx) - 2025-06-03 06:04 +0000
            Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-06-04 12:03 +1000
              Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2025-06-06 12:47 +0200
          Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-06-03 06:10 +0000
            Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-06-05 00:44 +1000
              Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions sean@conman.org - 2025-06-04 19:25 +0000
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-06-05 16:09 +1000
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-06-05 12:17 +0200
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-06-06 10:47 +1000
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions sean@conman.org - 2025-06-06 06:15 +0000
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-06-06 13:00 +0200
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions sean@conman.org - 2025-06-06 21:06 +0000
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-06-07 13:10 +1000
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions sean@conman.org - 2025-06-07 04:26 +0000
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-06-07 14:42 +1000
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-06-07 09:43 +0000
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-06-08 00:06 +1000
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2025-06-07 12:58 -0700
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-06-08 01:31 +0200
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2025-06-07 18:49 -0700
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-06-08 13:36 +1000
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-06-08 08:07 +0000
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-06-08 13:34 +0200
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2025-06-10 14:11 -0700
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-06-08 12:16 +1000
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-06-08 07:56 +0000
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-06-08 13:51 +0200
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-06-09 00:45 +1000
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-06-09 12:49 +0200
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2025-06-09 21:36 +1000
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions zbigniew2011@gmail.com (LIT) - 2025-06-09 12:24 +0000
                Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions zbigniew2011@gmail.com (LIT) - 2025-06-07 14:41 +0000
              Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-06-05 12:12 +0200
          Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions John <john@somewhere> - 2025-06-03 03:43 -0500
        Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-06-03 12:30 +0200
          Re: THROW codes and ambiguous conditions Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2025-06-03 15:10 +0200

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